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To: RickyJ
A baby cannot understand the gospel therefore they can't be baptized. Further more a baby doesn't need to be baptized, because they are not at the age of accountability and are therefore sinless before God. I have no idea why Catholics can't understand this.

Because the RCC persists to this day in trying to sell the idea that the RCC -- not Christ -- dispenses salvation. That is why good little catholic mommies, instilled with the superstition of the RCC, believe their babies won't be saved if they die before they are 'baptized' by the RCC. [Of course, our not-so-friendly Calvinists who are busy damning everyone not in their group (sounds similar to the RCC doesn't it?) don't help -- they would also damn irretrievably most dying babies. [Thankfully, Jesus, Calvinist/RCC pontificating to the contrary notwithstanding, doesn't agree.]

I generally agree with you on the issue of believer baptism because it doesn't really DO anything. We observe the ceremony of baptism as an outward demonstration and testimony of what Christ has done in our hearts. But if Christ hasn't regenerated one's heart, it doesn't matter if you take a shower, a bath, a scuba dive or a high dive, it ain't gonna "work."

Short and sweet -- Jesus saves, not baptism. No matter who does it or how or when it's done. A little (or a lot of) water and an incantation is still just water and incantation.

When everyone has heard the Gospel of Christ, THEN we can discuss which form of baptism comes closer to what the disciples were doing. [Remember Christ never 'baptised' anyone.] But until everyone has heard, it really doesn't matter.

81 posted on 10/31/2001 3:12:01 PM PST by winstonchurchill
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To: winstonchurchill
[Of course, our not-so-friendly Calvinists who are busy damning everyone not in their group ...

Having been part of evangelical Calvinist fellowships all my life, I've never seen them "damning everyone who's not in their group..." The doctrine of predestination says that the Father knows who the elect are, and no one else... His calling is specifically effective, and not an anemic "call to everyone equally" like non-Calvinists like to claim. If God calls everyone, then He must be a most unpersuasive Guy, as it appears a majority of people reject God from birth onwards.

I, like every other responsible Calvinist I know, believe there are myriads of non-Calvinist believers on earth...as faith alone saves...

Of course we think there are no non-Calvinists in heaven...only ones who formerly didn't understand while on earth...

86 posted on 10/31/2001 3:30:34 PM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: winstonchurchill
Baptism and faith in Christ saves. The Book of Acts is clear on this. Once you are baptized, you must believe in all your heart in Christ.
107 posted on 10/31/2001 4:15:47 PM PST by AMMON-CENTRIST
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