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How to Force Your Morality
Stands to Reason ^ | Gregory Koukl

Posted on 10/30/2001 9:08:43 AM PST by Khepera

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1 posted on 10/30/2001 9:08:45 AM PST by Khepera
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To: Khepera; JHavard; Havoc; OLD REGGIE; Iowegian; PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain; the808bass; is_is...
A reading ping
2 posted on 10/30/2001 9:12:01 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Khepera
Koukl's great. Koukl bump.
3 posted on 10/30/2001 9:15:40 AM PST by BibChr
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To: Khepera
I agree that we should be able to exercize our free speech. Absolutely! If a homosexual lives next door, I would not call the cops on him, even if he is breaking some law somehow. I would tell him a few things and seek to be a good neighbor.

If my neighboring town elects a homosexual mayor, I would boycott them and contribute to his next opponent, but I would not seek to overturn their vote.

If a young lady seeks an abortion, I would not willingly pay a dime to help her. I would try fervently to talk her out of it. But, I would not detain her physically. The murder is legal.

4 posted on 10/30/2001 9:19:47 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
You would not call the cops even if they where breaking the law? I'm glad I don't live next to you.
5 posted on 10/30/2001 9:23:22 AM PST by Khepera
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To: Khepera
If someone jay-walks, starts a fire at the wrong time, fires a gun too close to my house, I don't call the police. Our country is far too litigious. If two homosexual men kissed each other in public and there is some kind of law forbidding that, I would not call the cops on them. I would call my toilet and my stomach would complain to the bowl. Now if they were bathing in the nude, then I would warn them that if they did it again, I would call the police. I'd warn them the first time.

Like I said, I'm really really sick of our nanny state and sue-happy populace.

6 posted on 10/30/2001 9:27:33 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
er.. bathing in the rain in the nude... er...
7 posted on 10/30/2001 9:28:42 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March
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To: Khepera; MudPuppy
Interesting. We here in Key West just finished Fantasy Fest which for the unitiated is kinda like Mardi Gras - Sodom and Gomorrah style with over 30,000 people in attendance.

Point of this is, as persons with strictly conservative views of morality (we probably shouldn't be here in the first place, but..)We are not welcome to speak out against this festival. Last person who tried was run out of town, economically speaking. Even the local "Catholic" church sells parking space for this event which, at its height, involves sexual acts in the streets, both of a hetero- and homo-sexual nature.

Those of us who do boycott this festival or pronounce our disregard of it in any way are considered "intolerant" and even "communist".

This double standard angers me. That I am considered intolerant, while I and my family hide in our own house and can't go outside for 48 hours for fear of being raped (all of us) while the partygoers are considered "reasonable people".

My husband just says it should be ... and I quote..."open season on the fa***t ba****ds". So I ask you, am I intolerant?

8 posted on 10/30/2001 9:32:52 AM PST by Truelove
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
Calling the police when others break the law is not in any way like not sueing. I would hope at some point the transgressions of others go beyond warnings. God did no speak out against nude bathers but he did speak out against Homosexuals.
9 posted on 10/30/2001 9:38:13 AM PST by Khepera
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To: Khepera
If someone is a threat to others, I would not offer warning. It would be dealt with decisively.

There was a time in this country when all manner of anarchy occurred that did no one any harm and the police were never called in. Children brought hand grenades to show-and-tell. People shot guns into the air. Fire works on the Fourth of July were essentially unregulated. People could actually do jumping jacks in parking lots. People would visit your home, trip on some hairline crack on your sidewalk, and blame themselves when they visited the doctor. Complete strangers would spank a misbehaving child.

We now live in a nanny state. It's a nightmare. It isn't America anymore. It's a politically correct Spanish Inquisition. Sad freegards....

10 posted on 10/30/2001 9:52:39 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March
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To: Khepera
I've always found it annoying when people who don't like your message accuse you of "forcing" your beliefs on them, or "shoving" your beliefs "down their throats". If I say, "Adultery is a sin", where's the force? It is a sin according to Christianity, Judaism and all other major religions. Nobody wants to be cheated on.

The problem here is that nobody likes to be told that what they are doing is wrong, especially if what they are doing really is wrong and the person is well aware of the fact.

So, what's really going on is that nobody wants to be made to "feel bad" or "feel guilty" in any way. To counter the efforts by the majority to change their behavior through social disapproval or the law, these people (who started out as tiny minorities) attempt to change the definition of what it is they are doing, and then turn around and use social disapproval and the law against the majority, hence homosexual behavior is no longer a sin, it's just an alternative lifestyle, and you are "homophobic" if you think otherwise. An unborn baby becomes a fetus, and an abortion is simply "terminating a 'pregnancy'" or "evacuating a uterus", which is simply a "choice" that every woman has a "right" to choose, and you are "forcing" women to have children "against their will" if you express any views to the contrary. They change the definition of the behavior or the viewpoint, then turn any attempts to refute their definition into "being judgemental", which has now become the worst "sin" of all. In preaching "tolerance", these people have become the worst sort of totalitarian thought police.

You can see that the choice of weapons these people are using, (words and their meanings), to turn their immoral behavior into moral, to turn bad into good and good into bad, are the strongest items in their arsenal against morality and religion.

11 posted on 10/30/2001 9:53:56 AM PST by wimpycat
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To: Truelove
I say you need to come back to VA.....
12 posted on 10/30/2001 9:58:43 AM PST by MudPuppy
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To: Truelove
We here in Key West just finished Fantasy Fest which for the unitiated is kinda like Mardi Gras - Sodom and Gomorrah style with over 30,000 people in attendance.

Let God sortem out.

IMO.... The "don't force your morality on others" crowd REALLY means "you're bringin' me dowwwnn maaaaan." "Hey, don't lay that heavy trip on me. I'm makin' my own scene here." ....or some such. Those who are so afraid of "moralizing" are afraid of their own consciences, not my heavy hand.

again, IMO, Man (gender-inclusive intent) left to his own devices will engage in animal behavior and seeks to escape the uncomfortable internal conflict that higher brain-function can cause. If allowed to make himself the center of the universe, that higher brain function is used to rationalize the animal, or base behavior.

If someone challenges me on the "forced" nature of my evil-christian-prosteletizing-hate-speech (pluueeeaaase) I will probably start by asking them how I'm "forcing" them.

Just a thought, .... you may want to consider moving to one of our more backward (red) states. And don't look behind you as you leave.

13 posted on 10/30/2001 10:00:14 AM PST by sayfer bullets
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To: Khepera
morality bump
14 posted on 10/30/2001 10:07:42 AM PST by GenXFreedomFighter
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To: Khepera
This guy sounds like a libertarian trying desperately to crawl out of a conservative prison, but not quite understanding how.

He needs to study the concept of rights a bit, and everything would become much clearer to him, I think.

Acts that transgress his "high morality" are acts that violate another's rights. Acts that transgress his "low morality" are acts that he disapproves of, that he wouldn't commit himself, but that do not violate anyone's rights.

And he's absolutely correct that rights should be protected with the force of law, but that law has no place in what he calls "low morality"--or actually, in any morality at all.

The fact that he's not willing to incarcerate homosexuals is a good sign. Somebody ought to ask him whether he thinks dopeheads should be jailed.

He's trying. He's even getting close, as a matter of fact. Somebody ought to just give him a tiny boot over the edge, and he'd discover that he's really a libertarian, not a conservative.

15 posted on 10/30/2001 10:18:33 AM PST by Barak
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To: Khepera
This article is ridiculous. Is the author seriously suggesting that someone who refuses to listen to or acknowledge another's sermonizing is "forcing his beliefs" on the sermonizer? Good grief. That's like Osama bin Laden justifying the deaths of 5000 innocent Americans by claiming that they were in fact trying to force their beliefs on him by not wanting to become victims in pursuit of his holy cause.

Properly constructed, laws are designed to define and protect people's rights and obligations to respect the rights of others. Laws forbidding things such as adultery, homosexuality, pornography, drug use, are prime examples of the State MISUSING its law making powers to impose Judeo Christian morality upon free citizens consensually engaging in the refernced acts.

If you truly believe that your moral beliefs should be imposed by law and force of arms on others when they do you no personal harm (excepting perhaps to your delicate moral sensibilities), perhaps you would be better off in a fundamentalist Islamic country. Apparently they love forcing their beliefs on others too.

16 posted on 10/30/2001 10:29:33 AM PST by Melinator
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
What does any of the nanny stat rantings you sited have to do with morality? None of the things you have mentioned as being against the law are in the bible. Do not make mans laws equal to gods laws. I have no cares if you shoot into the air or light fireworks or whatever. Those are not laws cared about by God. Those laws matter not to me or the Bible.
17 posted on 10/30/2001 5:36:23 PM PST by Khepera
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To: Barak
You would wish him to be Libertarian however Libertarians do not have any standards of right and wrong as they are relativists
18 posted on 10/30/2001 5:38:53 PM PST by Khepera
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To: Melinator
Properly constructed, laws are designed to define and protect people's rights and obligations to respect the rights of others. Laws forbidding things such as adultery... are prime examples of the State MISUSING its law making powers to impose Judeo Christian morality upon free citizens consensually engaging in the refernced acts.

Adultery is a broken contract and thus punishable by law. You should be more careful, your inconsistency shows your lack of clear principles.

19 posted on 10/30/2001 9:34:08 PM PST by lockeliberty
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To: Khepera
LOL. This is a thread started about freedom of speech and religion. People often abuse their free speech by calling police or over silly matters. I was required to call the police if any customer did anything suspicious. A cashier ran up and said someone was doing something suspicious in the parking lot. I believe in quick response and called the police immediately. The customer was doing jumping jacks. The police officer agreed that we did the right thing calling him. The police officer said, "He had no business doing that here."

I guess perhaps the man might injure himself on the parking lot and sue us. Due to the sue-happy nature of this country, I was also trained not to apologise. But I did anyway.

It works both ways. What really drives Christians nuts is a homosexual who sues to be a scout master, a teacher, etc. who is in regular contact with their children, and they aren't even allowed to know it. The school and or scout club aren't even allowed to inform anyone if they find out.

20 posted on 10/31/2001 6:40:39 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March
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