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To: sonrise57
I agree with you we do have to be careful about applying prophecies about Israel to the United States. Don't you agree we were founded as a Christian nation (and God has blessed us beyond any nation) and we now live in a post-Christian nation?

Don't you also agree that throughout God's Word that God judges nations as a whole?

By the way what denomination is your church?

56 posted on 10/29/2001 8:52:58 AM PST by truthandlife
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To: truthandlife
I don't believe that the USA was founded as a Christian nation. Many of our founding fathers were deists including Jefferson, Franklin, Thomas Paine, and others. George Washington was a Freemason as were many of the other founders. Freemasonry confesses a more universal idea of God than the Bible and Christianity profess. So no, I do not believe the USA is or ever was a Christian nation. For most of our history the USA establishment was dominated by Protestant Christians of various stripes.

Having said that, let me make it clear, that the constitution provides for the free exercise of religion and conscience. Those who came to these shores fleeing religious persecution wanted to be sure that there would be no governmentally established religion, which is what the establishment clause is all about. This atmosphere has allowed religioun to flourish. The founding documents of our nation also allowed free enterprise to flourish. These two powers, freedom of conscience and free enterprise have enabled us to become a profoundly religious and a profoundly blessed nation.

Now, getting to the heart of the issue. Those who are believers in Christ, in this great land of freedom and opportunity have been charged with an awesome responsibility. That is the propagation of the gospel to turn more and more people to God and biblical morality. The second responsiblity is to use our wealth--that is the wealth we believers have accumlated to be the hands and feet of Jesus to a hurting and improvrished world.

If you ask me, the church has failed at that responsiblity in the past decades. What I believe is that when judgement comes, it begins with the house of God (I think I read that somewhere). I believe the church in America needs to repent before we can ask non-believers to repent. When the world starts seeing us live right, they may be attracted to the gospel and we may see rightousness grow once again in our nation. I believe the judgement we should anticipate is judgement and persecution on God's people the church, to wake us up to do our job in this nation we have been entrusted with. That is why I reject the idea that the WTC was a judgement from God on our nation.

Finally, in the OT God judges His people Israel and he judges the nations with regard to how they relate to His people. If a nation blesses God's people, they are blessed, if a nation curese God's people, they are curesed. God in his provdence uses historical events to work out his eternal purposes. What others meant for evil, God, because He is sovreign can utilize for the establishment of his will.

I think when believers shout from the rooftop, that September 11th was God's judgement we are seen by the world as foolish hypocyts (sp). We have to clean up our own act. Then we can turn our attention to the world.

73 posted on 10/29/2001 9:19:47 AM PST by sonrise57
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