Having said that, let me make it clear, that the constitution provides for the free exercise of religion and conscience. Those who came to these shores fleeing religious persecution wanted to be sure that there would be no governmentally established religion, which is what the establishment clause is all about. This atmosphere has allowed religioun to flourish. The founding documents of our nation also allowed free enterprise to flourish. These two powers, freedom of conscience and free enterprise have enabled us to become a profoundly religious and a profoundly blessed nation.
Now, getting to the heart of the issue. Those who are believers in Christ, in this great land of freedom and opportunity have been charged with an awesome responsibility. That is the propagation of the gospel to turn more and more people to God and biblical morality. The second responsiblity is to use our wealth--that is the wealth we believers have accumlated to be the hands and feet of Jesus to a hurting and improvrished world.
If you ask me, the church has failed at that responsiblity in the past decades. What I believe is that when judgement comes, it begins with the house of God (I think I read that somewhere). I believe the church in America needs to repent before we can ask non-believers to repent. When the world starts seeing us live right, they may be attracted to the gospel and we may see rightousness grow once again in our nation. I believe the judgement we should anticipate is judgement and persecution on God's people the church, to wake us up to do our job in this nation we have been entrusted with. That is why I reject the idea that the WTC was a judgement from God on our nation.
Finally, in the OT God judges His people Israel and he judges the nations with regard to how they relate to His people. If a nation blesses God's people, they are blessed, if a nation curese God's people, they are curesed. God in his provdence uses historical events to work out his eternal purposes. What others meant for evil, God, because He is sovreign can utilize for the establishment of his will.
I think when believers shout from the rooftop, that September 11th was God's judgement we are seen by the world as foolish hypocyts (sp). We have to clean up our own act. Then we can turn our attention to the world.
I think you are right on (2 Chron. 7:14 If my people will humble themselves and pray..." and you sound like you are very sound in your Biblical doctrine and it is great to see a pastor who is Biblically sound (because there are many wolves in sheep's clothing).
I do believe that September 11th tragedy is a wake up call from God and I think the Church in Americacan take responsibility in the spirtual decay of this nation.
I am not going to debate you on this country being founded on Christian principles because I believe it was. I know many of the founders were not Christian but this nation has been predominantly Christian in its young history.
Having said that I do believe the reason God has not taken his whole hand off of us is because of the American church's support for missions. (Some 85% of Christian missionaries worldwide originate in the United States. Tens of millions of Christian converts around the world owe their salvation to the faithfulness of American Christians to spread the Gospel.)
I also believe he has not taken his hand off of us because of our support of Israel (even that is starting to waver I am afraid). Since Israel reclaimed nationhood in 1948, America has been (and continues to be) her truest friend and closest ally. Without America's support, Muslim enemies would have drowned Israel in the Mediterranean Sea long ago.
If the American church repents and turns from its wicked ways, I do think we will see revival in this nation but unfortunately I think 9/11 was short lived of people turning to God and it will probably take something for worse (I pray that it doesn't) to wake up the Church in America and its people who have departed from God.
The "world" has always looked upon believers as foolish. "The gospel is foolishness to them which perish."
The church has not failed - organized religion has failed - as it should. The doctrines of man has failed. Jesus said the gates of hell shall not prevail against My church. The church, IMHO, is not Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, etc. Jesus' church is the body of believers that are committed to HIM first and foremost. Organized religion of all denominations are full of churchianity, not Christianity. But, in those vast congregations of churchianity, Christianity is alive and well - in some churches more so than others. And, the gates of hell will not prevail against THAT church.
What I believe is that when judgement comes, it begins with the house of God (I think I read that somewhere).
Yes, you are correct. It's in Isaiah but for the life of me I can't find the chapter and verse right now - even with a concordance! If my understanding of Scripture is correct, the Lord will first judge the "shepherds" - the pastors and preachers, then He will judge those that call themselves Christians yet do not live their lives in accordance with the teachings of Christ. Then He will judge the non-believers.
I believe the church in America needs to repent before we can ask non-believers to repent. When the world starts seeing us live right, they may be attracted to the gospel and we may see rightousness grow once again in our nation.
Right on the mark here! The church has to repent and live in righteousness. We have to not only "talk the talk", we have to "walk the walk" every waking minute of our lives. Until we Christians do that, our witness will not and cannot be taken seriously by non-believers. Why would a non-believer believe when she/he hears Christians preaching one thing and doing exactly the opposite? Not gonna happen!
I believe the judgement we should anticipate is judgement and persecution on God's people the church, to wake us up to do our job in this nation we have been entrusted with.
Absolutely! The persecution of the church will test everyone that professes to be a Christian. Those whose hearts and minds are not totally committed to Christ will have to make a choice - Christ above all even if it means immediate death or the wide road. Through this persecution, the true church will grow, the riff-raff will fall away - chosing safety over Liberty in Christ. Jesus' church will become more righteous - walking the walk - and it will be a powerful witness to the Lord. This is happening now. People that have been ho-hum about their life in Christ (myself included!) are taking stock and rededicating their lives to Christ. They are turning away from the world and grabbing on to the promises. And their witness is strong - they are bringing people into the Lord's fold. A lot of churches are going through some big changes now - many people are leaving non PC churches in search of those churches that give them a wide berth. The churches that do not accept the PC doctines and compromise are growing by leaps and bounds. I think the TRUE church is being prepared now for what is to come. When that time comes, our witness will be powerful and a great many non-believers will believe.
That is why I reject the idea that the WTC was a judgement from God on our nation.
I am not wise enough to figure out if the WTC was a judgement or not. Some days I think it is, other days I ask the same questions as OWK and others and totally reject that is was a judgement. I just don't know.
I do know that God is Sovereign and can do anything He determines to do in order to accomplish His purpose - the rest I have yet to figure out.