H.R.3162 PATRIOT ACT{ YOUR NEW- POLICESTATE- LOOK FOR YOUR SELF}

thomas ^ | GOVERNMENT

[freedomnews]

H.R.3162

Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (USA PATRIOT ACT) Act of 2001

[poet]

Those who cry Appease! Appease! are hanged by those they try to please and the cowards deserve it.
If they are not willing to protect their own freedoms, then they can't be trusted by either side.

[poet]

That is not true!!! In order to get the people behind their actions, they have to define who the enemy is and that they have not done!! ubl is not the only enemy, perhaps the whole of islam is because after all, we are all infidels in their minds and we either convert or die.
I'll keep saying it, the GESTAPO law just passed is against Americans and no one else!!!!!!!!!!!

[poet]

They have the audacity to call it the patriot act. That should tell you what they think of us for God's sake!!!!!!!!!! What an obscenity!

[B4Ranch]

"If we ever pass out as a great nation we ought to put on our tombstone, 'America died from a delusion that she has moral leadership.' Will Rogers
____________________________________________________ I don't think Freedom is free, or that safety is the safest way to live. Putting the Constitution in the closet for four years is a mistake. Trying to ignore the 4th Amendmant during times like this is a bigger mistake.

Courage can become a habit but you will never overcome your fear. I never have and hope I never do because my fear is what keeps me alert to the loss of our Constitution and Bill of Rights.

[Helix]

Thanks for the heads-up! I was wanting to read the final text.

[Native American Female Vet]

"Declaring wars against ideals rather than a flesh-and-blood enemy, btw, is in my opinion a "mind screw" to give those in power now an open-ended invitation to come up with any means their creative minds can think of to justify taking more authority for themselves at the expense of our freedoms."

That is right! I hope you dont mind but I wrote it down to use later.

[freedomnews]

WAKE UP AMERICA "Anti-terrorist laws don't stop terrorists,"

[freedomnews]

WAKE UP AMERICA "Anti-terrorist laws don't stop terrorists,"

[KDD]

Mr. Leahy: We should be clear at the outset that while the sunset applies to the expanded surveillance authorities under FISA, it does not apply to other controversial provisions in the bill. As originally passed by the House, the sunset did not apply to the provisions on sharing grand jury information with intelligence agencies, in section 203(a), and the so- called ``sneak and peak'' authority for surreptitious search and seizure, in section 213. The final bill, H.R. 3162, removes two more provisions from the sunset--the expanded scope of subpoenas for records of electronic communications, in section 210, and the new authority for pen registers and trap and trace devices in criminal investigations, in section 216.

This should have been an act of political suicide for any of our political leadership that supported this abomination. If we the people do not make it so...then we deserve what we are going to get.

[MHGinTN]

They are designed to make the job of tracking them down easier, more efficient. In that regard they can stop terrorists ... Mousoui (sp?) wasn't on flight 93 because he was detained for a reason; the new bill gives more reasons to detain and that will translate into stopping some of what wouldn't be stopped pre-terrorism bill, IMHO.

[Native American Female Vet]

I felt like you do yesterday. But something happened...I got PISSED OFF and this time I couldnt blame it on a Democrat. I didnt want to have to start from the bottom again....but if we dont...who will

[Snow Bunny]

Thanks for this.

[Mo1]

Thanks for the bump .. it looks like a long read and I would rather carefully read this before making a comment

I have read many of the posts here and I can understand the points made on both sides ..

This whole issue it a little tricky IMO .. even though War has not "officially" declared .. the facts are . we are at War .. it's plain and simple there .. we were attack and we are now defending ourselves ..

I don't trust the Senate and don't look to them for leadership .. but I will say .. President Bush is not anti-american .. that is pushing it a bit .. and for those who say they won't vote for Bush in 2004 .. oh please .. who ya going to vote for Queen Hillary???

Ok .. I'm off to read this information now .. so for those who feel the need to slam me .. go for it if it makes you feel better ..

TTFN

[KDD]

and for those who say they won't vote for Bush in 2004 .. oh please .. who ya going to vote for

Whomever promises to repeal this travesty of a law.

It may be the first time in over 30 years that I don't vote Republican.

[Mo1]

Well gee that didn't take long .. lol

Look I haven't read the whole thing yet .. and what I have heard so far .. yes it's walking a very thin line with this law ..

But if you or anyone else thinks for one minute I'm going to vote for a Comminista Rat Liberal .. you are outta of your mind ..

Ok .. I'm back to reading .. TTFN

[suijuris]

You are making a claim that your right to privacy exceeds my right to life.

Actually, Tightsqueeze's right to privacy does exceed your right to life, unless of course TS or his property is somehow involved in the unlawful taking or injury to your life. On the other hand, TS may determine to give up some privacy to save your life, but that would be his or her decision to do so, not the governments.

[BADROTOFINGER]

Whether or NOT I have anything to hide is irrelevant.

Through 55 posts, that statement is the most lucid I have yet seen. Good luck convincing those whose lack of appreciation of their own rights of its validity...JFK

[Boucheau]

I do not trust the gov't one iota. Any individual who blindly trusts ANY gov't is a fool. The founding fathers believed that same to be true.

I love the label "tin-foil hat" that how some conservatives "the defenders of freedom and the constitution" came up with to brand anyone with a dissenting view on this one. It's obvious some people already had thier tongues hanging out in full readiness for the recent onslaught of boots.

You'll get temporary boost in safety. But what might be the unintended consequences? The thought of which you are so eagerly willing to evade.

I definitely DO NOT LOVE THE GOVERNMENT. My country, I love. The ideas that have made it great, I value. The powermongering chumps-in-charge, no love lost in any event.

I shall don my tin-foil hat in four years whilst we watch them conjure up some other convenient excuse, some necessity, to rationalize their extending of the power grab.

Have Americans become so naive as to trust their politicians? Do they suppose that the constitution, or our freedoms are safe in the clutches of career politicians who are usually, and at best borderline personalities, and at worst sociopaths?

In our time what decent, intelligent and honorable man would even attempt to get elected? He'd have to relegate himself to the level of scumbag just to get through the first week of campaigning. Does an honest man have a chance in the US political arena today? I think not.

Ask yourself, why a person would spend millions to attain an office that pays 80-150 grand?

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." --Patrick Henry

"Government is too big and too important to be left to the politicians." --Claire Huchet Bishop

"The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments." --William Edgar Borah

"Liberty has never come from the government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of it. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it." -- Nadia Boulanger (1887-1979)

"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding." -- Louis Dembitz Brandeis (1856-1941)

"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." -- Gerald R. Ford (b. 1913)

"The biggest lesson I learned from Vietnam is not to trust [our own] government statements. I had no idea until then that you could not rely on [them]." -- James William Fulbright (b. 1905), US Senator

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive." -- Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), 3rd US President

"The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who Is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost invariably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And if he is not romantic personally, he is apt to spread discontent among those who are." -- Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956), American editor, critic, founder "American Mercury"

[BADROTOFINGER]

Regarding post #56:

"What is that in your hand, citizen!?"

"Uh, I just got paid for finishing up a..."

"Is that MONEY in your hand!?"

"Well, yeah. Like I was saying, I had a contract to remodel a..."

"That much money for one job!? Do you think I am stupid, citizen!? Hand it over, NOW! I know a terrorist when I see one!!"

"No, no, no, I just got paid, I have to pay my bills and feed my..."

Scuffle ensues, the man's money is taken.

"Now, citizen, I suggest you fill out this paperwork so that if you aren't a terrorist, we can have a hearing to determine your claim is true. Until that time, we will keep the money!"

"How am I supposed to disprove a negative? Thats my money, and you dont have any right to take it!!"

"Since the United States Government believes you to be involved in illegal activity, we are seizing this money until you can prove that you are not."

"Well, when is my hearing?

"Thats your problem..."

A little extreme maybe, but we have learned a lot from the War On Drugs. Or have we???

...JFK