Info on Smallpox vaccine for freepers

"There was alot of unreferenced and unsubstantiated info there"

Really? Were they advocating withholding antibiotics from someone at risk for inhalation anthrax until after symptoms appeared -- the same advice you gave on your first day here at FR?

I haven't quite figured the guy out, but I do think it boils down to a question of either knowledge, or motives.

Or rampant ego. :o)

"Well, one of us is trying to belittle... but it isn't me. I think you need to take your ego down a peg or two."

That's his MO. The first day he showed up on FR, he started by giving out free medical advice. He insisted that no one should receive antibiotic treatment for inhalation anthrax until after symptoms appeared. In other words, he was giving out death sentences to anyone who took his advice.

When challenged on it, he waxed irate, and started railing about how he was a doctor, and no one should listen to anyone who contradicted what he said. He then launched into a series of ad hominem attacks on his critics.

"My doctor gave it to me in the late 1970's"

How is that possible? Every report I have heard or read has stated that "anyone under 30 years old could not have been vaccinated." In other words the last vaccinations were given about 1971.

Some of his responses are not ringing true:

1.) When AmericanGurl (#4) asked if he was a Doctor, he apparently Freep mailed her. ( #40) Thank you for your mail. I understand if you can't answer me back for professional reasons.

2.) How could a Doctor who is too young to know what measles look like, (#66) be in practice long enough to have a few vials of small pox vaccine hanging around? (#61)

3.) He claimed to be having difficulties trying to get info on who is sitting on the Board of directors of Wyeth Laboratories. (#67) I found the info in less than 5 minuted with a google search.

He then launched into a series of ad hominem attacks on his critics

When the other party begins the ad hominem attacks, you know you've won the debate on substance because the other guy has nothing else to offer.

He claimed to be having difficulties trying to get info on who is sitting on the Board of directors of Wyeth Laboratories. (#67) I found the info in less than 5 minuted with a google search.

He also thanked someone early in the thread for finding CDC info. that I found with my first general search.

The url at John Hopkins gives some important info about vaccines.

"case-fatality rate of 30 percent or more"--This means if one negative reaction occurs in a group of 300,000 the same group who is NOT vaccinated would have a death rate approaching 100,000. I'd take the vaccine in a flash, if I could (my children,too).

"Vaccination ceased in this country in 1972, and vaccination immunity acquired before that time has undoubtedly waned" If you have a chance to take the vaccine DO it (unless you have other medical conditions that would contraindicate it)

"Contaminated clothing or bed linen could also spread the virus" Remember that among native americans given smallpox infected blankets, the following epidemic had a rate of 50% mortality, so pretend ALL items associated with smallpox victims are dangerous--they are!

"average incubation period of 12 to 14 days."

"Approximately 140,000 vials of vaccine are in storage at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, each with doses for 50-60 people, and an additional 50-100 million doses are estimated to exist worldwide. This stock cannot be immediately replenished, since all vaccine production facilities were dismantled after 1980, and renewed vaccine production is estimated to require at least 24-36 months.

In 2000, CDC awarded a contract to Oravax of Cambridge, Massachusetts to produce smallpox vaccine. Initially producing 40 million doses, Oravax anticipates delivery of the first full scale production lots in 2004."

I'm pretty sure smallpox vaccinations were mandatory for all public school children prior to 1972.

You might call your school and ask them if they were required when you went there or call your health department and ask what the regulations were at that time.

Thanks for the ping.

well, my sis was born in 1966, too, and she was vaccinated by the same doc that didn't vaccinate me. So you must have been born in the cutoff year... well, just crossing my fingers vaccination won't be necessary for this.

Something interesting I found while surfing the net...two cent's welcome

Smallpox severity and infectiousness

CHAPTER THREE Bacteria Inc---Cimex Lectularius

"acute infectious disease"--Encylopedia Britannica (2000)

"Perhaps the greatest evil of immunization lies in its diversion of public attention from true methods of disease prevention. It encourages public authorities to permit all kinds of sanitary defects and social problems to remain undressed, particularly in schools. It ignores the part played by food and sunlight and many other factors in the maintenance of health. It exaggerates the risk of diphtheria and works upon the fear of parents. The more it is supported by public authorities, the more will its dangers and disadvantages be concealed or denied." M. Meadow Bayly, M.R.C.S., 1944

To test the effectiveness of natural immunity versus vaccination, the nonvaccinated Kingston Clinic staff challenged six vaccinated doctors to join them, in 1936, in a smallpox isolation unit. The doctors had the very good sense not to accept the offer.

"Smallpox is considered one of the most virulent of contagious diseases, and it is generally believed that persons exposed are almost invariably attacked, unless protected by vaccination. This is one of the most stupendous exaggerations to be found in medical literature. My experience has been that very few people take it when exposed to it."--John Tilden MD

"Dr Campbell discovered smallpox was caused by the bite of a bedbug..and the degree of severity of the disease was directly proportional to the cachexia (general ill health and malnutrition) of the patient...He spoke of "scorbutic cachexia" relating it to scurvy, "the disease caused by lack of green food" and said "the removal of this perversion of nutrition will so mitigate the virulence of this malady as positively to prevent the pitting or pocking of smallpox." (Immunization p54. Bacteria Inc by Cash Asher 1949)------Walene James:

"Dr. Bridges, in his Report, observes that "of 796 visitors who paid 1118 visits, only 3 were afterwards admitted into the hospital with small-pox." Mr. Sweeting, of the Fulham Hospital, writes :—" 33 patients were visited by 48 persons, who made altogether 76 visits; only one of the visitors was afterwards admitted with small-pox." ...Dr. Bernard, of the Stockwell Hospital, writes :—" 1056 visits were paid into the wards of the hospital. It is interesting to be able to say that, as far as I have heard, no one caught small-pox thereby;"---The Fable of the Smallpox Nurses and Revaccination

"As a matter of fact, perhaps it is safe to say that not more than 10 per cent of the people ever would take smallpox if sleeping in the same bed with an infected smallpox victim."--Dr Hay

"Both Press and Radio continue to preach that smallpox is a terribly infectious and deadly scourge. They never tell us that " - . - provided no mischief be done either by physician or nurse, it is the most safe and slight of all diseases". (Dr. Thomas Sydenham, 1688).--Lionel Dole

"For years Dr. Matthew J. Rodermund, MD of Wisconsin, USA, offered $10,000 to anyone who could prove scientifically that smallpox is contagious. Nobody ever claimed the money. Dr Charles A.A. Campbell, MD of San Antonio, USA, who was for years in charge of an isolation hospital made exhaustive experiments in order to demonstrate that smallpox is contagious, but found that this is not the case."--Keki Sidhwa ND

"Dr Rodermund, a physician in the state of Wisconscin, created a sensation by smearing his body with the exudate of smallpox sores in order to demonstrate to his medical colleagues that a healthy body could not be infected with the disease. He was arrested and quaratined in jail, but not before he had come into contact with many people. Not a single case of smallpox developed through this "exposure"....I have ...handled intimately thousands of cases of contagious diseases, and I do not remember a single instance where any of us was the least affected by such contact."---Henry Lindlahr MD (Philosophy of Natural Therapeutics p 39).

An Obstinate Baby---At a public meeting held in the Town Hall, Derby, March 2, 1871, a working man caused much amusement by asking Dr Greaves how it was that when four out five of his children were down with smallpox, the fifth, unvaccinated, would not take the disease, although placed between two of the others in bed.

"In a recent number of the Leicester Free Press, it is said :—" So far as we are concerned in Leicester, a town containing 120,000 inhabitants, with many thousands of unvaccinated children, smallpox seems to be about the least dangerous of all diseases, and is not to be named by the side of scarlet fever, measles, whooping cough, diarrhoea, or even consumption. If a case of small-pox is discovered, instant isolation is adopted, and during the last five years we have hardly had five deaths. That being the state of the case, one need not wonder that the fear of the disease should disappear, or that resistance to vaccination should increase."--William Tebb 1881

"Dr. Russell T. Trall, the eminent Natural Hygienist, considered smallpox "as essentially . . . not a dangerous disease." He cared for large numbers of patients afflicted with smallpox and never lost a case. Under conventional medical treatment, patients were drugged heroically, bled profusely, were smothered in blankets, wallowed in dirty linen, were allowed no water, fresh air and stuffed with milk, brandy or wine. Antimony and Mercury were medicated in large doses. Physicians kept their patients bundled up warm in bed, with the room heated and doors and windows carefully closed, so that not a breath of fresh air could get in, and given freely large doses of drugs to induce sweating (Sudorifics), plus wine and aromatized liquors. Fever patients were put into vaporbath chambers in order to sweat the impurities out of the system. Given no water when they cried for it and when gasping for air were carried to a dry-hot room and after a while were returned to the steam torture. Many must have died of Heat Stroke!"--Dr Shelton DC

"During the Brighton smallpox outbreak (1950-51), the usual BBC encephalitis campaign opened with an anonymous doctor assuring the world, with authoritative emphasis, that "smallpox is the most infectious disease known to Man"! The BBC had evidently never heard of influenza. During the smallpox outbreak of 1961-2, on the other hand, we heard medical officers of health saying on the radio such things as, "After all, smallpox is not such a very infectious disease." This would have been held to be pure blasphemy only a few years ago. May the good work go on!"--Lionel Dole

[Vaccination] [Smallpox]

She is not taking Cyclosporin (anti-rejection) medications. Her surgery was a transplant/reimplement and donor organs were not used.

To be on the safe side I placed a call to her nephrologist and urologist.

Thank you to all for offering this information. When I talk to the doctors I will have a basic knowledge to draw on.

Thanks. If smallpox hits, people will be storming health centers trying to get the vaccine, and there's not enough for everyone.

Welcome to Free Republic, bonesmccoy! If you need any help along the way, please feel free to post to any of us on the newcomers thread linked by 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub!

"1.) When AmericanGurl (#4) asked if he was a Doctor, he apparently Freep mailed her. ( #40) Thank you for your mail. I understand if you can't answer me back for professional reasons."

From post 17 of "BREAKING: Anthrax case possible in VIRGINIA"</>

To: all

I'm a doctor of medicine. Don't worry guys. The treatment for anthrax is well-established. These guys would have to genetically engineer the strain to defeat the newest antibiotics. I don't think they can do that. It's hard for our own biotech companies to do that. If you start freaking out, it will drive up the cost of the drugs. It's better to use these antibiotics judiciously. If you over use them, the germs themselves will become modified through the natural mutation process. It's better to NOT use the antibiotics unless you absolutely have to. OK?

17 Posted on 10/09/2001 00:32:17 PDT by bonesmccoy
[ Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | Top | Last ]

And in #39, "Just see your doctor if you get sick. No different than at any other time"

Now, to put it in perspective, from SD Health Alert Network - Inhalation Anthrax (10/9/2001):

SD Health Alert Network - Inhalation Anthrax
(10/9/2001)

Quick reference - Inhalation anthrax

Infective dose	Incubation period	Duration of illness	Symptoms	Mortality
				Untreated	Treated after symptom onset
8,000-50,000 spores	1-6 days (up to 60)	3-5 days		Cold symptoms, difficulty breathing, chest pains		~100%	~90%
Transmission	Isolation precautions for hospitalized		Persistence of organism	Patient decontamination
Aerosol. No person to person transmission	Standard		Soil ~40 years	Remove, bag & save clothing for law enforcement. Shower with soap and water

I'm a bit confused here. Don, have I done something wrong that my name keeps coming up your (and others) posts?

I was part of the first generation NOT to be vaccinated and I was born in 1969

I was born in 1969 at Doctor's Hospital in Manhattan, NYC and I was vaccinated against Smallpox. My parents were even vaccinated in the 1970's before they were supposed to go on a trip to Persia...a trip which ended up being cancelled because the Shah was deposed and exiled.

I was born in 1951 but I don't see a scar on my left arm.
Were vaccinations given on the outer thigh?
What years were vaccinations given in U.S to school children?
thanks

Thanks for the quote. Odd, bonesmccoy just didn't answer AG's question on the forum. Also, there is a bit of a discrepancy in the suggested timing of the treatment. Hope he's not practicing in my state.