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To: super175
Taiwan has to realize reality. When I say that I do not mean (and never will) that Beijing or the CCP will be their rulers. I do mean though that they have to realize that there is (or should be) fundamental changes going on in China. Despite the fact that the KMT is not the ones bringing this change, that it IS happening.

The reality is Taiwan is not part of China. Everyone knows it.

Taiwan knows about the fundamental changes in China better than anyone. And they exploit them better as well.

Many if not most people of Taiwan are not against being part of China because it is drummed in to their head from an early age. With the death of Chinag Ching-kuo and collapse of old school KMT that brainwashing is ending.

The only solution is de jure recognition of Taiwan.

Later they can unify or not.

Really when you say, "I do not mean (and never will) that Beijing or the CCP will be their rulers," it is difficult to know exactly what you are saying.

It's nice to think of a free China with Taiwan a part of it, but the Taiwan part is really superfluous.

Taiwan never really has been part of China and whether it is part of a free China or not is not very important.

A free China is a bigger issue.

Taiwan was not part of China when the Qing dynasty defeated the Ming (in fact Chinese people didn't even have any presence as a society there and never had).

When the Qing fell in 1911 and Dr Sun became the first President and the Republic was formed, Taiwan was not part of China.

The whole issue is nonsense and artificially imposed on Taiwan by despotic regimes, the Qing and Japanese first and the CCP and KMT later.

Mao and Chiang are dead more than a qarter century. Why does the US act as Mao's surrogate?

Why is our policy determined by long dead despots? It makes no sense.

13 posted on 10/18/2001 11:20:00 PM PDT by tallhappy
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To: tallhappy
The reality is Taiwan is not part of China.

I guess it all depends on how you define the word "China" or "Chinese".

If I said "Taiwan is part of Asia" or "Taiwan is in Asia" would everyone freak out?

The stigma about "China" comes from 1. Feudalism. 2. Communism (including the CCP and the stuff they did)

If we come up with a completely new, brand new defintion of "China", then what?

I would never advocate Taiwan being under a feudal dictatorship. Historically "China" has been defined by dynasties. Whoever happens to be in charge, happens to be the definition of "China"...

14 posted on 10/18/2001 11:35:11 PM PDT by super175
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To: tallhappy
The Chinese used to believe that "heaven was round, and that the world was square".

What is the character for "zhong" of "zhong guo"?

19 posted on 10/19/2001 12:30:45 AM PDT by super175
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To: tallhappy
The reality is Taiwan is not part of China. Everyone knows it.

I don't know this "reality".

Many if not most people of Taiwan are not against being part of China because it is drummed in to their head from an early age.

Only those Taiwanese KMT members are brainwashed and DPP members are normal? Under the same education system and background? Be real!

The only solution is de jure recognition of Taiwan.

Please tell this to people in MaTsu and KinMan and also KeJiaZen. Do you respect them or screw them?

Taiwan never really has been part of China and whether it is part of a free China or not is not very important.

Yeah right! Go visit cemetaries in Taiwan and read those headstones then tell me about it.

Taiwan was not part of China when the Qing dynasty defeated the Ming (in fact Chinese people didn't even have any presence as a society there and never had).

Go visit cemetaries in Taiwan.

27 posted on 10/19/2001 8:12:54 AM PDT by color_tear
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To: tallhappy
The reality is Taiwan is not part of China. Everyone knows it.

No, it is. It is the only significant part of China which was not taken over by the Communists and for many years Taiwan was considered by many countries (including Taiwan) as THE CHINA and where THE TRUE Chinese government had its temporary seat. To say that Taiwan is not part of China is like to say that West Berlin (or East Berlin depending on your attitude to the Soviet block) was not a part of Germany during the Cold War.

159 posted on 10/27/2001 5:04:47 PM PDT by A. Pole
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