Taliban Reportedly Arming Civilians

CBS News ^ | 10/18/01

[kattracks]

• Kabul, Kandahar Pounded As Special Forces Wait Nearby
• Three Mile Island Alert Ends, After 'Credible Threat'
• Bush In China, Cheney To Visit Ground Zero
  
  

Oct. 18, 2001

AP
A Taliban soldier, about 30 miles west of Jalalabad

(CBS) Weakened by 12 days of unrelenting air raids by the U.S. military, the Taliban government of Afghanistan has reportedly started handing out weapons to civilians.

That's according to Afghans phoning in from the war zone near Kandahar, where they say about 150 men armed with rifles and rocket-propelled grenades are guarding the compound of Taliban supreme leader Mullah Omar.

The Taliban issued an appeal Thursday, saying Afghanistan is running short of food and medicine and needs help.

Those reports came as President Bush arrived in Shanghai, where he'll be pushing the war against terrorism in meetings with the leaders of China, Russia, Japan and South Korea, at the Asian Pacific Economic Conference summit.

Trade is the reason for the summit, and Mr. Bush says that can be used as well as an economic weapon against terrorists.

"We will defeat them," said the president, "by expanding and encouraging world trade."

---

Read more about President Bush's
trip to China for the APEC summit.

---

The Taliban also said Thursday that Omar, all Taliban leaders, and Sept. 11 terror attacks suspect Osama bin Laden are alive and well.

"The leadership and our guests (bin Laden and his associates) are mobile and safe, and Americans can't find them," declared Abdul Hanan Himat, a Taliban spokesman.

However, the London-based Islamic Observation Center said an Egyptian known by the nom de guerre Abu Baseer al-Masri was killed by a U.S. strike near the northeastern city of Jalalabad. Al-Masri, a member of the Egyptian radical group al-Gamaa al-Islamiya, had been in Afghanistan for 10 years with al-Qaida and was close to bin Laden's top lieutenant, Ayman al-Zawahri, say former fighters in Afghanistan.

The center on Thursday also relayed a statement from Mohammed Atef, the military commander and the No. 3 leader of al-Qaida, warning that U.S. troops will suffer the same fate in Afghanistan they did in Somalia, where bodies of slain soldiers were dragged through the streets.

The Taliban also claims as many as 12 civilians were killed today when a U.S. air strike hit a truck filled with residents fleeing Chaparhar, in Jalalabad.

Except for the geographic location, the claim is nearly identical to another Taliban statement made 24 hours earlier.

The Taliban also says over 400 people have been killed since the bombing began.

None of those reports have been independently verified; the Pentagon earlier this week dismissed some Taliban casualty reports as false.

For the first time ever, the United States is flying armed, unmanned drones into combat. "Predator" spy planes, armed with anti-tank missiles are taking to the skies over Afghanistan, U.S. defense officials said Thursday.

The remote-controlled RQ-1 aircraft have been modified by the Air Force to carry two Hellfire missiles. Defense experts called such a move a first step toward perhaps one day building unmanned, long-range bombers that can carry dozens of missiles and bombs to overseas targets without risking human crews.

CBS News National Security Correspondent David Martin reports Afghan resistance fighters who have been locked for years in a stalemate with Taliban fighters are now being directly aided by the U.S. military.

F-15 Eagles, the Air Force's premier ground attack aircraft, flew all the way from Kuwait to strike Taliban front lines, to assist rebels in their battle to seize the crossroads town of Mazr-e-Sharif and its airport.

The rebels are reported to be close to success; the Taliban denies that.

U.S. special operations forces meanwhile are poised nearby, in the Indian Ocean, waiting for the signal to begin the next phase of the war.

The forces specialize in lightning raids and other types of secret missions.

In Pakistan, a U.N. official says the Taliban has returned one of two World Food Program warehouses it had seized at gunpoint early this week. The WFP says the 5,300 tons of wheat the warehouse contained has also been returned.

Meanwhile, an employee in CBS News Anchor Dan Rather's office has tested positive for the skin form of anthrax, the network said Thursday.

"She is expected to make a full recovery; in fact, she feels fine," said Andrew Heyward, CBS News president. He said she was being treated with antibiotics.

The employee experienced swelling in her face Oct. 1 and reported her symptoms to health officials. It was not immediately known how she became infected, but she handled mail.

Mayor Rudolph Giuliani said there was no sign of anyone else at CBS with symptoms.

Anthrax has already been found on the skin of an assistant to NBC-TV News anchor Tom Brokaw and the infant son of an ABC-TV producer who took the child on a visit to the network's office.

Also Thursday, a postal worker who may have handled tainted letters sent to NBC and Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle tested positive for exposure to anthrax, state sources said.

And in what may be the first case of tainted mail outside the United States, officials in Kenya said Thursday a letter mailed to an unidentified recipient in their country from Atlanta has tested positive for anthrax spores.

The Senate was open for business Thursday, continuing work despite the anthrax scare that convinced House leaders to shut down operations through the weekend to allow for extensive environmental testing.

While the theory that the anthrax scare might be the work of Osama bin Laden is aggressively being investigated, authorities have said they have "no credible evidence" that this is so.

---

Read more about the
anthrax scare

---

Similarly, there is a nationwide alert today for a tractor-trailer filled with fertilizer and pesticides, stolen Tuesday or Wednesday from a trucking company in Parsippany, N.J.

Authorities say they don't have any evidence that the vehicle was taken by terrorists; it could have been a simple theft.

The truck, which has a yellow Freightliner cab, has the word "Penske" on the side, has an Indiana registration, number 171469, is 45 feet long, has "Rockland" written in green letters in four different places, and is a 1988 Freuhauf model with New Jersey registration T392VD.

Another alert - at the Three Mile Island nuclear power plant in Pennsylvania - is now over. Military aircraft, police and FBI had been called to the area yesterday in response to what officials called "a credible threat."

In New York, tight security is in effect, with the day ahead holding both a visit from Vice President Dick Cheney and a high-level court proceeding at the federal courthouse just blocks away from Ground Zero.

Four terrorist disciples of bin Laden, convicted in the 1998 bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa, received life without parole Thursday in a city still coping with the aftermath of the worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil.

They were convicted on charges of plotting the bombings to comply with a 1998 fatwa - an edict - by bin Laden to kill Americans.

One of the four men was bin Laden's personal secretary.


©MMI CBS Worldwide Inc. All Rights Reserved. Reuters Limited and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

[Billthedrill]

Don't think of it as military aggression...think of it as a laxative...

[longshadow]

Arming civilians is always a good sign.

So good in fact, that we may not have to send in any troops. After years of repressive crap that the Taliban has dished out to the Afghan populace, arming them will be the precursor to their own overthrow at the hands of the disgruntled but-now-armed civilians.

For this reason, I conclude one of two things is true:

1) the report is false, or

2) the Taliban are even more stupid than I suspected.

[foreshadowed at waco]

Just saw a streaming thread across the bottom of Special Report with Brit Hume--the Bush Adminstration has announced that Somalia is harboring the al Queda--guess our Rangers will have a chance to go back there and even the score--this time with the armored vehicles that Clinton denied them--recently saw a very good documentary on MSNBC called "Black Hawk Down" about the Rangers in Somalia--it was gut-wrenching to hear the survivors talk about what it was like being trapped by the vile scum al Queda trained terrorists over there--apparently Somalia was a bin Laden-financed operation--the terrorists used women as shields--they would hide behind the women and fire at the Rangers from under their armpits...these savages deserve to be wiped out. BTW Our guys were terrific!

[vannrox]

[xm177e2]

Taliban Reportedly Arming Civilians

Now even the liberals have to join us in supporting airstrikes =)

[butter pecan fan]

There are no innocents in regards to the enemy! Nuke em till they glow and shoot em in the dark!

This is the same philosophy of those who destroyed the World Trade Center.

"All Americans are guilty. Kill them all."

"All Afghan people are guilty. Kill them all."

The fact is, most Afghans are just as innocent, and just as much victims of the Taliban/ bin Laden/ al Quaeda as those in the World Trade Center were. If not more so, since the ordinary Afghans have had to put up with these sadistic b******* every day of their lives for years. Don't have a beard? Take your beating. Ankle showing, Mrs. Smith? Take your beating. No food, Mrs. Jones? Tough s***, we don't allow women to work and earn a living. You'll just have to starve to death.

Are you morally any better than the terrorists? By posting crap like that, you demonstrate that you aren't.

Unfortunately, there are many cases where it's impossible to distinguish between the innocent and the not so innocent. A lot of Taliban "fighters" only have guns in their hands because the Taliban will murder their families if they don't pick them up. In that case the best thing we could do morally (which is fortunately the militarily sensible thing as well) is try and provide an opportunity for defections.

If that doesn't work, then we simply have to kill them. By having a gun in their hands (however willingly or unwillingly), they are a legitimate military target.

There are also many occasions when a military target is so important you have to just take it out even though you know in advance there are going to be significant civilian casualties as well. In that case, the moral responsibility for the murder of innocents lies squarely on the Taliban who, by their actions, put them in harm's way by creating a situation in which they knew their own civilians would be killed.

But there's a major difference between those scenarios and what you propose. Don't dare to suggest we ought to just casually machine-gun (or nuke) innocent civilians and then pretend to be moral, or a good American. The fact is, if you seriously propose this, then you're morally no different from the al Qaeda thugs. Or the Nazis, for that matter.

[butter pecan fan]

Or, to put it another way, perhaps more succinctly:

Protection and mercy to the innocent, American or otherwise.

Death to sadistic murdering b******* who deserve it. And yes, that would also include any American sadistic murdering b******* too -- Timothy McVeigh and Jeffrey Dahmer being excellent examples.

[butter pecan fan]

Or, to put it yet another way:

When Joshua was by Jericho, he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a man stood before him with his drawn sword in his hand; and Joshua went to him and said to him, "Are you for us, or for our adversaries?" And he said, "No; but as commander of the army of the LORD I have now come." And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and worshiped, and said to him, "What does my lord bid his servant?" (Josh 5:13-14 RSV)

God is not automatically on the side of the Taliban. Nor is he automatically on the side of the Americans.

God is on the side of those who will do what is right.

[RasterMaster]

Are you stoned or just born stupid? Never once did I declare my moral superiority over middle-eastern scum. They are just as guilty of the crime if they had piloted the aircraft themselves. We held the Japanese "innocents" to the same fate as their leaders.

This is war, not a pleasure cruise. Apparently you and the "reporters" at CNN need to get your head out of your collective asses and see that they do not see any difference between you or a soldier in their backyard.

They are either all with us, or all against us. Choose sides carefully....there's no going back now. FYI: Nuclear weapons have been approved by this government for deployment in the middle east if the situation calls for it. Growing up with the middle east becoming an ever-increasing problem which they seem unwilling to solve themselves, shows that a final solution would be more appropriate. I could care less who calls themselves innocent, as their children continue the butchering of other "innocents". Would you care so much about a crackhead [who just robbed your house and killed your family] if the cops were beating him like Rodney King?

Why should the US care one way or the other what the Saudi's or the Afgani's under the Tali-wackers think. They are the enemy, which they have proven, time and time again. How would you deal with the enemy, slap them on the hand and tell them not to do that anymore? Probably, but they'd be back tomorrow attacking. If not you, then your neighbor.

[butter pecan fan]

Never once did I declare my moral superiority over middle-eastern scum.

Then it appears that, in this one point, you are correct.

They [all Afghan citizens] are just as guilty of the crime if they had piloted the aircraft themselves.

If this is true, then by your own incredibly stupid logic, YOU are just as guilty as any American politician who bin Laden has a grievance against, and you and I (and all American citizens, such as those in the World Trade Center) are legitimate targets for destruction. In which case, why would you oppose al Qaeda?

I could care less who calls themselves innocent, as their children continue the butchering of other "innocents".

Wait a minute -- was that you who said that, or was it bin Laden? It's starting to all sound like the same source.

Would you care so much about a crackhead [who just robbed your house and killed your family] if the cops were beating him like Rodney King?

Such a person, obviously, would be guilty. You seem to have a problem distinguishing the concept of guilt and innocence.

Let me try and spell it out for you. People who do bad and evil things, such as murder people, are guilty, and deserve punishment. People who don't do bad things are innocent. (Can you say "innocent"?)

Decent people don't purposefully murder the innocent.

How would you deal with the enemy, slap them on the hand and tell them not to do that anymore?

Destroy the enemy, of course.

Innocent, unarmed civilians in another country who have no intention of harming us and no means to do so, who are solely concerned with how they can find enough rice to feed their families today, are not the enemy.

Unless, of course, you're Osama bin Laden.

[RasterMaster]

"Unless, of course, you're Osama bin Laden."

Or a Japanese farmer living outside Hiroshima. War is hell, ain't it?

You cannot take the time to determine who is guilty and who is innocent when they are all in one country. In the middle east, there are many different tribes that contribute to the populus of each country. Therefore, you kill off one, then you have pissed off his cousin in two countries over, and he now has a vendetta against you.

People got bogged down in this "innocent" BS back in Vietnam....what would the American losses been otherwise? There is no innocents except those who have picked up arms against their oppressor (in this case the Taliwackers), such as the Northern Alliance (and I do not recall singling them out, as more Taliban have joined up with them).

If we are to win a war against terrorists, we cannot be disarmed by thinking there are innocents among the people we are about to bomb. Any news station (we know who you are) who would decry innocents were killed would rather arm the enemy so they can kill more of us. The people on the aircraft had no choice. The first two planes kept in their seats afraid a few "innocents" might get hurt. By the time the plane crashed into the pentagon, the passengers of the 4th plane KNEW they were to be killed, and kept more INNOCENTS on the ground from being killed. Just need to look more carefully at who you call INNOCENT!

[butter pecan fan]

Therefore, you kill off one, then you have pissed off his cousin in two countries over, and he now has a vendetta against you.

You think people get pissed off when you kill soldiers? They really get pissed off when you indiscriminately rain bombs down on women and children -- nuclear or otherwise -- without giving a damn who it is you're killing, or whether they are armed combatants or unarmed civilians. How would you like people murdering your five-year-old daughter -- for no greater reason than just because she lived in California, New York or Florida...

Why do you think we Americans are as angry as they are? Did we give a damn when bin Laden bombed the U.S. Cole? Was there public outrage for months when nightclubs attended by our servicemen were bombed? People expect that a few soldiers are going to be killed by an enemy and are therefore, in a sense, fair game.

But not women and children.

I repeat (and I will not do so again because this is getting tiresome) -- there are many times when you can't avoid civilian deaths, but the deliberate, cold-blooded murder of unarmed civilians is not only incredibly stupid militarily, it is downright evil. And if you can't see that, then you're too stupid -- or evil -- for hope.

[JeepInMazar]

according to Afghans phoning in from the war zone near Kandahar,

Afghans with phones in Kandahar are not ordinary, average Afghans. Propaganda alert.

[RasterMaster]

Women and children do not matter, as death does not descriminate. Perhaps I am evil, if that makes you feel better. But I did not "thank" or "bless" those who did fly the plane into WTC, while claiming "I had nothing to do with it". How many of these people are "innocent"?

[RasterMaster]

Or these kids.....their parents are "innocent" too?

[RasterMaster]

"Nothing to see here, we are all innocent".

[RasterMaster]

More "innocents".

[RasterMaster]

"YOU are just as guilty as any American politician who bin Laden has a grievance against, and you and I (and all American citizens, such as those in the World Trade Center) are legitimate targets for destruction."

I don't know where you've been, but WE ARE TARGETS! They do not see the difference, so why should we? Just to be "better" in the eyes of the world than the rest? We have already done that and now we are blamed for not doing enough, or supporting Jews too much.

Their squabble over a tiny strip of land is just an excuse to make war. If the Palestinians are unable to hold a piece of territory, they should leave. Also, if the Israelis can't get out of Palestinian areas, they should take the entire region by force, and tell the PLO to go to Afganistan.

If that is the "reason" we are being attacked (for "liberation" from Israli occupation), then it needs to be addressed. Nuke em both, and who is left to complain about it? War is hell, but there must be some fun in it as these two groups have been at it for awhile, and have no signs of letting it go. Both want the other dead, plain and simple.

Why choose sides on this one? I think they are both evil.