I am the LORD, and there is none else; there is no God besides Me. I girded thee, though thou hast not known Me, that they may know from the rising of the sun and from the west that there is none besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.If I sent you a letter with a substance that caused you to get sick, would I be doing something evil? It is my intent to cause you pain. I do this with premeditation. What would you call this, an evil act or a calamity that I caused? – CCWoodyI form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I, the LORD, do all these things.
"Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness; let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together. I, the LORD, have created it.
"Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, `What makest thou?' or thy work, `He hath no hands'?
That would be a moral evil. You see, as a person (and according to what Romans says [for example 3:23]), you do not have the same attributes as God does. In your case, as a person who needs Salvation, you are capable of committing "moral evil" -- which is unrighteousness. At the same time, you have the ability to cause calamity (of the same type that God does, on the one hand), in terms of not being unrighteous -- or, on the other hand -- you have the ability to commit evil acts of the morally depraved kind, as opposed to calamity. You can do either. God cannot. – Star Traveler
You have given out some pretty good advice in that we should look to see what Job had to say about it. However, you are looking at the wrong end of the book:
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.Notice that it is God who says that He moved against Job in chapter 1. And Satan does not attempt to correct Him, but responds by asking God to stretch for His hand and harm his bone and flesh. Now, you will surely say as God says that He has given Satan authority to harm Job. And I would not object. However, this does not change the fact that both God and Satan credit Him as the ultimate source of Job’s problems.And the LORD said unto Satan, "From whence comest thou?" And Satan answered the LORD and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down upon it."
And the LORD said unto Satan, "Hast thou considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one who feareth God and escheweth evil? And still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst Me against him to destroy him without cause."
And Satan answered the LORD and said, "Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
But put forth Thine hand now and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse Thee to Thy face!"
And the LORD said unto Satan, "Behold, he is in thine hand; only spare his life."
So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
And he took him a potsherd with which to scrape himself, and he sat down among the ashes.
Then said his wife unto him, "Dost thou still retain thine integrity? Curse God, and die!"
But he said unto her, "Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?" In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
And after Satan smote Job, it is Job himself who responds by crediting God as the ultimate source of all the evil that has befallen him. And yet in all this did not Job sin with his lips.
Note that the word sore is really the Hebrew word ra` {rah} and is the exact word of controversy between you and the Bible. This is also the exact same word translated evil (probably adversity in your Bible) in Job’s statement. You have already said that this should be translated as "morally evil" from my letter example above.
Conclusion: Your position is overthrown.
Now, the interesting thing here is that I could stop, having made my point that even though you have spent a lot of time producing commentaries and making posting, you really naturally believe as I do and just as God says: I make peace, and create evil. But, I thought we would look at Billy Graham’s comments:
The Bible says that God is not the author of evil. It speaks of evil as a "mystery." In 2 Thessalonians 2:7 it talks about the mystery of iniquity. The Old Testament prophet Jeremiah said, "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" He asked that question, "Who can understand it?" And that’s one reason we each need God in our lives.Sometimes "sound bites" won't cut it! – Jerry_M
I think that Jerry has pegged what Billy Graham said pretty well. In the sense that Dr. Graham has chosen to use the word, God is indeed not the author of evil. Dr. Graham has chosen to define the word evil as unrighteousness; as have you. However, what God is talking about in Isaiah 45 is not unrighteousness. And, 2 Thessalonians is not talking about the same thing as Isaiah 45. The mystery of iniquity in 2 Thessalonians is talking about something very specific:
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and by our gathering together unto Him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as if from us that the Day of Christ is at hand.Jerry, this is a very interesting passage. God shall send a strong delusion upon those who will be perishing in this time so that they will believe the lie. And this passage also affirms that we as saints are to always give thanks because God chose us in the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit. Says a lot about some of our recent discussions with the Wesleyan group.Let no man deceive you by any means, for that Day shall not come, unless there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sitteth as God in the temple of God, showing himself to be God.
Remember ye not that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth, that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now holdeth back will hold him back, until he is taken out of the way.
And then shall that wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming--even him, whose coming is according to the working of Satan, with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all the deceit of unrighteousness in those who perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie, that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren, beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you for salvation, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, whereunto He called you by our Gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold to the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word or our epistle. Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and God even our Father, who hath loved us and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.
Funny thing happened at my "Wesleyan"type Church tonight.My Pastor played a tape on the history of Halloween and a spiritual response to it.The speaker on the tape said "Satan is a tool in the hand of God"..then went on to say "God uses him" to achieve his purpose..and cited the crucifixion as an example .My pastor nodded his head and did not attempt to correct it
Now it seems to me that is applicible to this discussion..
Out of your own mouth I will prove you wrong and show that it is you and all your commentators who are not understanding "evil" and denying the Sovereignty of God. - CCWoody
I see you don't take to "wise counsel" very well. But, maybe God can work on that. In the meantime, the computer gets unhooked this morning and boxed up to be moved. It's moving day and it will probably be back in service in a week (after all the unpacking).
And anyone else feel free to make whatever comments in the meantime. I'll be back. Have fun.