Billy Graham Fulfilling last Prophecy? (posted in Oct., 2001)

unknown | unknown

[Fighting Irish]

Totally amazing that God became politically correct in less than 24 hours!

Just like Him!!!!!!

[Star Traveler]

I have read and studied the bible extensively, I know what's going on around me, and yet I came to utterly different conclusions that you.

Could it have something to do with this?

  Romans 1:16-32 
      
  16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for 
     it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who 
     believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 
      
  17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed 
     from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just 
     shall live by faith." 
      
  18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven 
     against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, 
     who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,  
      
  19 because what may be known of God is manifest in 
     them, for God has shown it to them. 
      
  20 For since the creation of the world His invisible 
     attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the 
     things that are made, even His eternal power and 
     Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 
      
  21 because, although they knew God, they did not 
     glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became 
     futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts 
     were darkened. 
      
  22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 
      
  23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God 
     into an image made like corruptible man--and birds 
     and four-footed animals and creeping things. 
      
  24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, 
     in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their 
     bodies among themselves, 
      
  25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and 
     worshiped and served the creature rather than the 
     Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 
      
  26 For this reason God gave them up to vile 
     passions. For even their women exchanged the natural 
     use for what is against nature. 
      
  27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of 
     the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men 
     with men committing what is shameful, and receiving 
     in themselves the penalty of their error which was 
     due. 
      
  28 And even as they did not like to retain God in 
     their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased 
     mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 
      
  29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual 
     immorality, wickedness, covetousness, 
     maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, 
     evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 
      
  30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, 
     boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to 
     parents, 
      
  31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, 
     unforgiving, unmerciful; 
      
  32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that 
     those who practice such things are deserving of 
     death, not only do the same but also approve of 
     those who practice them. 

Or maybe this --

  2 Corinthian 11:13-15 
      
  13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, 
     transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 
      
  14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms 
     himself into an angel of light. 
      
  15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers 
     also transform themselves into ministers of 
     righteousness, whose end will be according to their 
     works. 

 

[greggy]

The requirements for salvation have varied from time to time, especially at the beginning. Many will not have time to find a church and be baptized and I believed they will be saved. Also I believe that perhaps others may be saved but I wouldn't personally want to bank on it.

I remember when I was first saved. I prayed and asked Jesus to forgive me for my sins. What was I doing? I was (1) acknowledging that I had sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (boy we really don't pay attention to what that really means), and (2) I wanted him to be my companion for all eternity. I didn't say it that way, but that is what I meant and that is what he looks for. I will never forget that moment. I was in sixth grade.

It was at that moment I was born again, which means only that I have a new spirit in my body that was born of God (who is a spirit). Being born into the family of God means that heaven is my home because I am a child of God (the muslims are not children of God). Let me say this again. I do not enter heaven because of what I did or did not do, but because of who I am. My son, for example, comes home to my home because he is my son and that makes my home his home. But the kid down the street doesn't come home to my home. He comes home to his father's home.

Jesus said to the leaders of Israel's religion that their father was the devil. It was not that he was trying to say they were demon possessed, but that we all fall short of the Glory and die spiritually- are out of fellowship with God. He never intends to heal our spirit, but to crucify it with Christ and give us a new spirit- rebirth our spirit- a whole new spirit on the inside. This spirit is the real us, the real man. This is the person on the inside that has the nature of God, the love of God, and through which God will guide his child.

[greggy]

I can tell you the place- the whole world will see the Lord Jesus in the air returning for his church and mourn. His return will be lightning. You won't be watching for it, but it will grab your attention none the less. You will see it no matter where you are and no matter what you are doing. You won't miss it, even if CNN should go off the air.

[homeschool mama]

bump <><

[greggy]

What makes him an authority?

Basically, knowing the subject matter -- and he certainly does.

So understanding the subject matter makes one an authority. I see. What if his understanding is full, but also very wrong? For example, he can say, "I know that the bible says..." but then draw all the wrong conclusions too.

Are you saying that we should all accept his views because he has good understanding of the subject?

Am I being clear here? Do you see why your answer is wrong?

[Jorge]

For the first time in history, one man (Billy Graham) spoke the Gospel to the entire world at the same time

This is great...but the prophecy states that the Gospel will be preached to the entire world...not necessarily by one man, or in one sermon.
There are countless people ministering the Gospel around the world.

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

Did everyone in Andorra, Liechtenstein,Montenegro, and Leinster, Cornwall, and Eddessa catch this? Hadn't they already been evangelized previously?

[Star Traveler]

So understanding the subject matter makes one an authority. I see. What if his understanding is full, but also very wrong? For example, he can say, "I know that the bible says..." but then draw all the wrong conclusions too.

In general terms, that's right. I don't know where you've been for the last few years -- but unless you haven't noticed -- there are lots of "authorities" (and recognized ones) who disagree with each other. Thus the diagreement with each other doesn't make them be "considered" any less of an authority -- even though they can be saying totally opposite things to each other.

I have to laugh at this "splitting hairs" by you (in terms of the word "authority") because anyone and their dog knows that if one were to go into a court case and call in so-called "authorities" you could practically buy any authority you wanted for any viewpoint. Thus, what you say is totally irrelevant in terms of describing the word (and term) authority.

But, having said that -- there is definitely a concern for the truth -- no matter if one is an authority or not. And I think I answered that issue (i.e., the one about "truth") in post #62. That pretty much covers the issue.

Let me also say that the "authority of the inspired word of God" is not what we're talking about here. The question was simply "What makes him an authority?"

No person is "inspired of God" today, since the cannon of Scripture is closed. Thus, the authority that resides in Scripture (which is full and complete) is not what we're talking about here in terms of "What makes a person an authority?" That's a pretty general question and gets a pretty general answer.

My general answer stands.

Perhaps -- on the other hand -- maybe what one was really asking is how we can tell a wrong interpretation of Scripture from a right one? If that's it, then it gets a different answer (which I did not address, there).

[greggy]

When I got home, I called them on the phone and told them I would no longer contribute to Family Radio, for that reason.

I am with you there. But let's not get in the other ditch of the road and say we will all be surprised, because that defies the bible.

1 Thes 5:1-2: Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night...

1Thes 5:4: But you brothers are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

You see, the church will not be surprised because they will not be in darkness. Darkness is made void by light, and the light will be from God. He will tell us and we will not be surprised by it. I assure you.

The church will be made glorious and you will see christians with faces shining with the Glory of God before He returns. He will return for a glorious church. People down play that fact because they simply cannot imagine transfiguring like Jesus did, yet our bodies are the temple of God's Holy Spirit. Imagine that. We hold the Holy Spirit of the one and only true God of the universe within out mortal bodies, and yet we cannot imagine shining with the Glory of God?! What's the matter with this picture?

Also, when we get our new bodies we will remain down here on earth for a while. We will walk around with our immortal bodies before we go up to be with Jesus in the clouds. How do I know? Because Paul says, "after that [after the dead are caught up in the clouds to be with Jesus], we who are still alive will be caught up with them forever."

I heard one preacher say that we would follow the dead by a nanosecond. But if that were true, it would appear to Paul that we are caught up with the dead, not "after" the dead.

When that really begins to sink in, then you will see the next part of that passage in 1 Cor 15:53-54:

For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: Death, has been swallowed up in victory.

Death has not yet been swallowed up in victory, but it will in your life time.

[greggy]

It's fairly clear to somone who reads the Bible and knows what is going on around them.

What a strange coincidence.
I have read and studied the bible extensively, I know what's going on around me, and yet I came to utterly different conclusions that you.

No!

Imagine that...

[greggy]

In general terms, that's right. I don't know where you've been for the last few years -- but unless you haven't noticed -- there are lots of "authorities" (and recognized ones) who disagree with each other. Thus the diagreement with each other doesn't make them be "considered" any less of an authority -- even though they can be saying totally opposite things to each other.
....
My general answer stands.

Perhaps -- on the other hand -- maybe what one was really asking is how we can tell a wrong interpretation of Scripture from a right one? If that's it, then it gets a different answer (which I did not address, there).

Well, okay, so now we understand what YOU mean by "authority". But now let's look at what the word really means, shall we? Here are a couple of them that might apply to this discussion, the others have more to do with law and government.

Confidence derived from experience or practice; firm self-assurance:

Well, given that, perhaps you are right. Perhaps having "firm self assurance" is enough to make one an authority. Then even an athiest is an "authority". Give me a break. Let's look further...

Justification; grounds

Here we see that you must be accurate or you have no grounds to make a claim, you cannot justify your position. Of course, you could perhaps say that if you can quote a scripture as the justification or grounds for your claim, then you are an authority. But then what does that lead to? Anyone that can quote any verse can make it say anything they want it to say. After all, they justified their position by pointing to a verse in the bible.

A conclusive statement or decision that may be taken as a guide or precedent.

Ah, here we go. A decision that can help guide others. Now we see that to be an authority, you had better be right!

[CWRWinger]

IMO, compromising, ecumenical, apostate hugging Billy Graham did not fulfil ANY specific Biblical prophecy. The next event on the Scriptural calendar is the rapture of the believers. No other prophecy needs to be fulfilled before then.

[Star Traveler]

Am I being clear here? Do you see why your answer is wrong?

One more follow-up here, on that issue. Using the dictionary, when referring to words (and their meanings) is usually a good method, too. If you examine the following from Websters (and I've included it all here), you can see that the most likely candidate for the usage of the word is -- 1c

 Main Entry: au·thor·i·ty 
   Function: noun
  Etymology: Middle English auctorite, from Old French auctorité, from Latin
             auctoritat-, auctoritas opinion, decision, power, from auctor
       Date: 13th century

1 a (1) : a citation (as from a book or file) used in defense or support
    (2) : the source from which the citation is drawn
  b (1) : a conclusive statement or set of statements (as an official
          decision of a court)
    (2) : a decision taken as a precedent
    (3) : TESTIMONY
  c     : an individual cited or appealed to as an expert

    2 a : power to influence or command thought, opinion, or behavior
      b : freedom granted by one in authority : RIGHT

    3 a : persons in command; specifically : GOVERNMENT
      b : a governmental agency or corporation to administer a
          revenue-producing public enterprise 

    4 a : GROUNDS, WARRANT 
      b : convincing force 

Once again, the question was what makes him an authority -- and my answer was correct, as the word is most commonly used (in his context). But, I have a feeling that this was not the true intent of the question (even though it was stated that way), you see....

Oh..., and I can imagine (with a lot of nit-pickers around here) someone is going to ask what makes him an expert, then... :-) I just happened to look it up and I think he qualifies that way, too. It was "one with the special skill or knowledge representing mastery of a particular subject." I believe Missler fits that category pretty well.

But, again, that still doesn't answer the "truth issue" in the definition. But, then I wasn't trying to answer it there.

 

[Star Traveler]

The next event on the Scriptural calendar is the rapture of the believers. No other prophecy needs to be fulfilled before then.

Amen to that. I would agree.

HOWEVER, I would like to point out that although no "prophetic event" needs to be fulfilled to have that happen -- there are "facts on the ground" (as it is said) that need to be in place before it happens. Those "facts on the ground" are not prophetic events -- but are rather "realities of life" that need to be in place before things can come together quickly (and on time) during the 7 year Tribulation.

The question is -- how long will it take for all the "facts on the ground" to line up for the final events to take place. That's the unknown factor. We wait and see. And that is the reason why these current events are so very interesting.

[Mark17]

Death has not yet been swallowed up in victory, but it will in your life time.

Well, I hope you are right, but I am already getting old. Maybe I should find a good Christian woman before it all ends. At any rate, I am a hockey fan, and I am going to watch the Dallas Stars and St Louis Blues. Later.

[Mark17]

BTW, Mama, did you know President Bush was at Travis AFB today? I did not know it till after he was already gone.

[rstevens]

Scriptures does not indicate that everyone hear the gospel, but that it be PREACHED to all places in the world. Once it is preached to the far corners of the earth, it is then up to those who listened to spread the word.

Muslims may not have heard the word preached, but you can bet they all have heard of Jesus.

[Star Traveler]

Also, when we get our new bodies we will remain down here on earth for a while. We will walk around with our immortal bodies before we go up to be with Jesus in the clouds. How do I know? Because Paul says, "after that [after the dead are caught up in the clouds to be with Jesus], we who are still alive will be caught up with them forever."

I seriously doubt that. It doesn't fit what it says here.

  1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 
      
  15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, 
     that we who are alive and remain until the coming of 
     the Lord will by no means precede those who are 
     asleep. 
      
  16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven 
     with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and 
     with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will 
     rise first. 
      
  17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught 
     up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord 
     in the air. And thus we shall always be with the 
     Lord. 
      
  18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Look at that verse 17 -- "shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air."

Now, if I understand you right -- the Lord and the dead in Christ are going to be floating around up there "in the air" and "on hold" -- just waiting for us to finish our "vacation" down here while we walk around, enjoying our new bodies.

Wouldn't that be kinda "rude" -- dontcha think?

In addition to that -- it also does not fit the word-picture analogy of the "wedding" and the "bride of Christ" as given in post #52. Now "picture this". Here is the "new wedding analogy."

The bridegroom comes in the middle of the night with a "shout" and with his wedding party to take the bride away -- but -- the bride says "Wait a minute, while I go over to my girlfriend's house and show off my new wedding dress. Hold on and I'll be right back..." [she's just "walking around" enjoying her new wedding dress, dontcha know...]

[RnMomof7]

Thanks for the charts..I finally figured out what I am..Historical Pre-Millennial,nice to know I am not alone...that there are others *grin*