Posted on 10/17/2001 12:18:58 PM PDT by junebug54
RE Post 30: Your point is well taken. It matters not when Christ returns for believers except to evangelize to add more to the fold.
Wow! The Moderators have been pulling comments left and right. Somebody talking about Allen Keyes again?
ha ha
RE your post 10-25-2001: I took pictures when I was on Meddigo plain in 1981 for a history of "the before" action.
I'd have to agree with your assessment... and I'm a post-tribber.
Well, I don't kow what the guy said; it may have been entirely over the line, but I can vouch that Graham has said and taught things that are contrary to the gospel of Christ. And before somebody wants to hit abuse, I can back it up with his own writings if need be.
At this point there are 225 posts, this is the first I have read.
Billy Graham is fulfilling prophecy but not the one you think he is.
Billy Graham lost all credibility when he told the world that bjclinton would make a good preacher.
That and those who hang on to the health and wealth gospel; they'll take the mark because "God certainly wouldn't want Christians to suffer."
".... and I'm a post-tribber."
What does this mean?
"Some say that the Holy Spirit came upon Billy Graham just as it did upon John the Baptist announcing the Kingdom of God is at hand."
Except when John was preaching, I bet there wasn't a newspaper magnate named William Randolph Hearst instructing his editors to "Puff John".
That's because Scripture gives no credence to this "tongues as evidence" litmus test put forward by Pentecostals.
but that is also part of the gospel,
Really? So one is not saved unless he/she speaks in tongues?
for Jesus said that when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, you will receive power to be a witness unto all the nations.
How does speaking in tongues and power to witness correlate? Surely, you've seen many people who speak in tongues and who are just as weak as others?
That power is part of the gospel, for it has to do with the spreading of the gospel in power.
Agreed, but you have nowhere demonstrated that this power comes from speaking in tongues.
The world deserves a gospel accompanied with the power of God. There should be more power demonstrated than preached, but these days there is less (except in some quarters).
Amen, the world deserves more power accompanied by godliness from the church and less... talk.
FWIW, I am not a cessationist and I believe in the gift of languages. I believe Paul's epistles are clearer on the use of "tongues" and that we shouldn't derive church doctrine merely from descriptive historical narratives.
I had the unfortunate experience of attending a United Pentecostal cult when I was a child but I was soundly saved in a Classical Trinitarian Pentecostal church as a young man. I have attended various charismatic churches as well (including the extreme "name it, claim it", five-fold, prophetic, latter-rain aberrations).
I am not anti-charismatic as such, but the modern movement has become wholesale corrupt and for the most part has left the orthodox church and has planted both feet solidly in the kingdom of the cults.
It is from years of introspection and study that I have arrived at these conclusions and I credit this to the fact that when God saved me, he gave me a hunger for truth (as he does all true converts). I didn't blindly accept the party line; I accepted most of what I was taught but as soon as the Holy Spirit gave me new light on the matter, I immediately shed it without delay. I really have never understood why this isn't true with all Christians; I suspect some have "grown up" within this tradition or that, have something to lose, etc. but that doesn't entirely explain all of it to me.
I have no doubt that what you write you sincerely believe to be true; unfortunately, reason and the Scriptural record simply doesn't bear this out.
First of all it means that I am a historic-premiller when it comes to the millenium and that by definition makes me a post-tribber. A pre-tribber is one who believes the rapture occurs before (pre) the Great Tribulation (the time of testing that comes upon the whole earth just before the return of the Lord). Mid-tribbers believe it occurs during the middle of the Tribulation (3 1/2 years). And post-tribbers believe that the Bible makes no distinction between the timing of the Lord's coming to gather the saints and His Second Coming. As such, we believe the church will go through the tribulation and be persecuted by the anti-Christ as Scripture clearly indicates.
This is such a short synopsis and I am not doing it justice. I'm sure there are others here brighter than myself who could illuminate it more for you.
Perhaps.
But I'm still inclined to believe that every people group and language must have some portion of the Gospel Scriptures reproduced in their language--at least by audio tape.
We shall see. Could be right about Graham.
Thanks.
Are you trying to wake me up after several years?
:-)
"I'd have to agree with your assessment... and I'm a
post-tribber."
I said earlier in the comments you referenced --
"The time during which the Gospel will definitely be preached
to the whole world, will be during the Tribulation time. Then
we'll see worldwide conversions."
I was thinking about a particular set of verses in Revelation that tell when the whole world will be given the gospel (i.e., "preached"). And it's amazing how it happens, given that it was not originally intended to be that way, according to the responsibilities that God gave (according to what He said in the Bible). And that particularly described set of verses hasn't happened yet.
Regards,
Star Traveler
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