Rocks may give away bin Laden

Miami Herald Online ^ | Monday, October 15, 2001

[JohnHuang2]

Rocks may give away bin Laden

San Francisco Chronicle

Geologists are examining rocks visible in a recent videotape of Osama bin Laden in hopes of shedding light on his whereabouts.

In theory, by identifying the rock types, they might provide new clues to bin Laden's movements.

So far, however, they disagree in their interpretations of the videotape. That is partly because of uncertainty about the rocks' color and distance from the camera.

``You would be surprised at how many people wonder whether or not the geologic information in the picture will be useful. The short answer is `yes, most definitely,' '' said John Shroder, a geologist at the University of Nebraska at Omaha who has worked in Afghanistan. He and other geologists complained that the available tape is frustratingly short -- just several minutes -- and the image is of poor quality. The U.S. government apparently has approached geologists for their advice about the videotape.

The San Francisco Chronicle electronically transmitted color still pictures from the available videotape to several geologists with experience in Afghanistan and asked them to evaluate the images.

The most specific reply came from Shroder, who has field experience in Afghanistan. In the 1970s, with funding from the State Department, he developed an atlas of Afghanistan. The Afghan government suspected him of spying and imprisoned him briefly.

He said, ``The photo image appears staged, probably with special lighting, in front of rocks that indicate [bin Laden] was probably in a ravine deep inside Paktia, which is a southwestern province in Afghanistan, and Pushtun tribal territory.''

In that region, ``the rock has a number of natural caves, as well as hand-dug ones,'' Shroder said in an e-mail.

For Education And Discussion Only. Not For Commercial Use.

[LeeMcCoy]

"Will intense pressure and temperature create any gems?"

The extreme pressures and temperatures required wouldn't be sustained long enough to do more than make some very interesting glass. Sorry! But maybe in 50 years or so we could start selling the glass as souveniers.

[Mr.E]

There is no way this guy is near that area these days. He is in Jersey City bowling. He took a commercial flight and no one ask him a question. All he did was wear a button that said , "I am Not that guy, don't ask." And no one did, because they didn't want to hurt his feelings... They even bumped him to first class to make him feel better. Think I'm kidding? He even has his own ball.

[eFudd]

Unless bin Laden was using a background props, it had not occurred to him or his group that these geological formations would be useful in locating bin Laden.

Whoever released the information that the government was asking geologist and that the info was useful into the press is guilty of aiding the enemy.

[shezza]

My arm-chair National Security Advisor theory is that Osama filmed his diatribe either just before or perhaps the day of Sept. 11, and hasn't been near those particular rocks for a month or more. His statement that America was tasting fear from north to south, from east to west (paraphrase) indicated to me that he might have thought the other planned attacks (the ones thwarted by the FAA grounding all planes immediately) on additional targets would have already taken place by the time this video was to air. Were not the Sears Tower, a site in Atlanta, a site in San Francisco (Trans America Building or whatever) and a couple of others on the list? That's pretty much north, south, east, west. Weren't there more than a dozen other flights in which Arab pilots were seated as "guests" in the cockpit jumpseat, but those flights were grounded?

He also used the word "TODAY"--as in "today America is experiencing the fear" that his people lived with all the time, blah blah blah. I took that literally. Today, as though he intended the video to be aired Sept. 11 when the Yankee cowboys were to fly overhead and retaliate immediately.

Some reports had him slipping out of the country, maybe to Japan or even China, PRIOR to Sept. 11, although it was probably the rumor mill that generated those. More likely is Pakistan or Iraq or Saudi Arabia. Al Qaeda was expecting BIG retaliation REAL fast, and Osama himself was probably long gone before the second tower even came down.

I don't think he's in Afghanistan at all, and I don't think analyzing those rocks will provide a clue to anything but where he HAD been at one time. But hey, if it gives someone something to do other than wring hands about anthrax, let the geologists go ahead and focus their attention on solving that particular question.

[lasereye]

Weren't there more than a dozen other flights in which Arab pilots were seated as "guests" in the cockpit jumpseat, but those flights were grounded?

Say what?

[Skooz]

Sorry...I can't resist:

[Revolting cat!]

"ROCK !!, ROCK !!, ROCK, EVERYBODY !!
ROLL !!, ROLL !!, ROLL, EVERYBODY !!"

       (Bill Haley and the Comets)

[HEY4QDEMS]

"Whoever released the information that the government was asking geologist and that the info was useful into the press is guilty of aiding the enemy"

Did ever occur to anyone that this information was leaked deliberately, I mean think about it, people all over Afghanistan are hunkered down, making it harder to locate them.
This type of information, if it gets back to Al Qeada would more than likely force Osama and company to move.
This movement would be picked up by recon technology (ie. Satelite,Spy Plane etc) thus making it easier to confirm his whereabouts

After all, one of our main objectives for success is to flush the terrorists from their hiding places.

Just MHO

[Harrison Bergeron]

Man I remember those Sgt. Rock comic books... but my favorite was the Sgt. Nick Fury series. Those were the days.

[Harrison Bergeron]

The Sgt. Fury of WWII.

[Skooz]

Yeah, I actually had a subscription to Sgt. Rock back in the early to mid 70s. It was my favorite comic ever. Sgt. Fury was good, too. Another of my favorites was Weird War, which wasn't really that weird. That is the comic that followed the adventures of that squad in the Stuart tank. I think it was called The Lost Patrol.

[wjeanw]

In Yossef Bodansky's book on Bin Laden, the "caves" are specially excavated manmade bunkers, not natural ones. Bin Laden used his family's construction company's resources (heavy equipment) and began building these hideouts a decade ago. There are also bunkers which the CIA helped to make during the Afghanistan War.

[wjeanw]

In Yossef Bodansky's book on Bin Laden, the "caves" are specially excavated manmade bunkers, not natural ones. Bin Laden used his family's construction company's resources (heavy equipment) and began building these hideouts a decade ago. There are also bunkers which the CIA helped to make during the Afghanistan War.

[Publius6961]

Why is this being made public? I would think that valuable information should be kept secret --

Because the world is full of pathologically insecure who must be "first" to demonstrate how "clever" or "smart" they are, or who must be the first unnecessarily to spread bad news, like the report of a death in the middle of the night...

In this case the Miami Herald.
This is not news; of what possible use is this to the average reader? Vicarious tittilation?
This is providing the enemy with aid and comfort.

[caddie]

Thank you, nitwit scientists, for revealing yet another fact by which we were tracking this d*ckweed.

Your intellects are truly great and wonderful; you are a national resource.

Thanks again!

[MississippiMan]

Why is this being made public? I would think that valuable information should be kept secret -- like telling our enemies not to stand in front of distinctive rock formations which may reveal where they are hiding.

Exactly. Our media to the rescue again. Bin Laden's rescue.

MM

[shezza]

Could have been another dozen Arab pilots on flights grounded Sept. 11

[philman_36]

They need to start locking some of these people up. The charge? Treason

A formal declaration of war would be needed first I do believe. Just ask the Congressman/Representative, whichever, who leaked items to the press.
Nothing done to him/her except a chastising slap on the wrist.
All actions have a consequence and having no formal declaration of war does too.
JMO, so you can take it or leave it.

[eFudd]

Did ever occur to anyone that this information was leaked deliberately.

Hope you are right.

[TKEman]

Interesting. I hadn't thought of that. I didn't consider the rock formations clear enough to do that. Even if they are, rock formations can extend for hundreds of miles. Helpful, but you can't pin his global position using this info.