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To: allend
For transubstantiation we gave you Bp. Ignatius, one of the disciples of the Apostle John, ca. 106 A.D.

I found this quote by Ignatius which was a bit interesting.

Take ye heed, then, to have but one Eucharist. For there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one cup to [show forth ] the unity of His blood;

From his epistle to the Philadelphians

In regards to Ignatius' quote, I would like to point out some things, in context. Ignatius is apparently doing fierce battle with the Docetists. Docetism denies that Christ actually died, that he only appeared to die. Thus, Ignatius' emphasis on Jesus "truly" dying, "truly" suffering, etc. So, the issue of the Eucharist is tangential to the main point. When he says that

They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again.
he seems to mean that they deny the truth of the actual crucifixion and the issue of the Eucharist is not his main focus, as is evident by the preceding sections. No doubt, you will throw up your hands and mutter some things about "invincible ignorance" at this point, but I think the quote from Ignatius is taken out of context (not to mention that the "longer version" has nothing of the sort in it).
88 posted on 10/15/2001 1:07:24 PM PDT by the808bass
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To: the808bass
the issue of the Eucharist is not his main focus, as is evident by the preceding sections.

It may not be the main foucs of the passage, but isn't it often the case that when we speak "off the cuff" on a subject it is often truer than when we try to formally discuss something? Almost in passing, when he mentions the Eucharist he uses the terms "flesh" and "blood," with no hint of irony or symbolism. It is just as straightforward and as simple as if I was telling a story today and mentioned in passage "the Body and Blood"

SD

91 posted on 10/15/2001 1:14:26 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: the808bass
"...BECAUS THEY DO NOT CONFESS THAT THE EUCHARIST IS THE FLESH OF ARE SAVIOR..."

They (the docetists) didn't just not believe that Christ was Man, they (beeing a Gnostic heresy) believed matter to be evil, so Christ could not use his flesh to save us, we can only be saved by a separation of spirit and matter.

109 posted on 10/15/2001 1:36:22 PM PDT by Pelayo
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