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To: dignan3
Because Unam Sanctam isn't the end all be all of Catholic teaching regarding extra ecclesiam nulla salus .

So this is one of those doctrines that evolves? That has developed and become more nuanced?

From the outside this looks like:

"Outside the Church, no salvation."

TWEAK

"Outside the Church, no salvation ^(when 'we are dealing with a medieval polity in which church membership and citizenship are identical.')"

TWEAK

"Outside the Church ^(which means those who have accepted the authority of the Church), no salvation ^(when 'we are dealing with a medieval polity in which church membership and citizenship are identical.')"

TWEAK

"Outside the Church ^(which means those who have accepted the authority of the Church) ^(which means that those who are outside the church, don't know its teachings, and thus are invincibly ignorant, are exempt), no salvation ^)when 'we are dealing with a medieval polity in which church membership and citizenship are identical.')"

TWEAK

"Outside the Church ^(which means those who have accepted the authority of the Church) ^("doesn't formally apply to people born into non-Catholic religions who, through no fault of their own, no nothing about the distinctive Truths of the Catholic Church."), no salvation.

TWEAK

"Outside the Church ^(which "doesn't formally apply to people born into non-Catholic religions who, through no fault of their own, no nothing about the distinctive Truths of the Catholic Church."), no salvation.

TWEAK

"Inside the Church there is salvation for those who accept the authority of the Church; outside the Church there is salvation for "people born into non-Catholic religions who, through no fault of their own, no nothing about the distinctive Truths of the Catholic Church."

TWEAK

"Outside the Church there is salvation for 'people born into non-Catholic religions who, through no fault of their own, no nothing about the distinctive Truths of the Catholic Church.'"

TWEAK

"Outside of the Church there is salvation."

A ==> -A

Why not just say Boniface was wrong? Because you can't.

6,421 posted on 11/06/2001 10:56:55 PM PST by malakhi
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To: angelo
Man, you play spin the cheese good!

BigMack

6,422 posted on 11/06/2001 11:09:26 PM PST by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: angelo
So this is one of those doctrines that evolves? That has developed and become more nuanced

In a word, yes. And we regard that development of doctrine, most recently taught by Vatican II, as no more illegitimate than Nicaea's homoousian or Lateran IV's Transubstantiation definition.

Beyond that and what I've written earlier, I really have nothing further to say on this subject.

Pray for John Paul II

6,440 posted on 11/07/2001 5:38:08 AM PST by dignan3
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To: RobbyS
Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.

( I am curious, though : Do you deny the right of spiritual authority to challenge the state's claim to loyalty over its citizens?)

Aside from the fact this dogmatic pronouncement is hardly defining a "challenge" and assuming you don't redefine what is meant by "loyalty", or add all kinds of nuances to "challenge", the answer is yes for matters of law.

Romans 13: RSV

1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
2 Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,
4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain; he is the servant of God to execute his wrath on the wrongdoer.
5 Therefore one must be subject, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
6 For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing.
7 Pay all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.
------------------------------------------------------------
6,445 posted on 11/07/2001 6:04:59 AM PST by OLD REGGIE
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