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To: IMRight
But you would, I take it, believe that God has always used sinful men (it's the only kind in stock) to act in infallible ways, yes?

God used wicked men and kings to do his bidding many times, but when did he use a righteous man when he had fallen back into sin (a pope who promotes killing is in the depths of sin) and was still in that sin, when God worked with him?

We'll start with the easy ones: The authors of each book of the Bible were fallible, yes? Sinful, Yes? but also acted infallibly Yes?

Besides the fact that the Holy Spirit wrote the Bible, I'll grant you he used a man's hand and personality to do so, but do you think they were out by night plotting with his bishops how to efficiently kill off all his competition, then by day became the mild mannered reporter who wrote down the life of Christ and the Christian era?

How many Biblical figures can you think of who were murderers, adulterers, etc. and yet were men after God's own heart, No? (Job comes to mind)

Not when they were in their sin, but when they had repented and were pleasing to him again.
Your popes were 1st and 2nd hand murderers for hundreds of years, it wasn't a matter of making a mistake, it was their personality, not a bad hair day.

How about all of the men throughout history that safeguarded our Scriptures from relevant error? God worked through these fallible, sinful men (mostly Catholics) in an infallible way.

I don't think these men had a clue what they were doing, and certainly never expected the scripture to be used against them. They knew they had the scripture locked up, and no one could touch it with out their permission, so they felt safe enough to be honest with the findings because they couldn't picture a day when they would have to share them with the world outside of the RCC.

It is obvious they were making laws that were directly against the scripture they had in their hands, but they did what they wanted to do anyway.

You're just stuck believing that He doesn't do it any more (or do believe in tongues and prophesy?).

No he doesn’t get involved in most of our problems at this time, He gave us the scripture, and then allowed man to run their church for 1500 years just to show them what a mess they would make out of it, then he worked with a few men, and oversaw the inventing of the printing press, and then the Church came alive, and is finally fulfilling the job that you could have been doing if it weren’t for Satan controlling things for so long.

I don't think God gives us any proveable miracles at this time, because he wants us to find him through his calling, and work out our own salvation, and develop a personal relationship with him through the Holy Spirit, and not some temporary feel good miracle that the next day you will question whether it really was one or not.

514 posted on 10/16/2001 9:24:19 PM PDT by JHavard
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To: JHavard
He gave us the scripture, and then allowed man to run their church for 1500 years just to show them what a mess they would make out of it, then he worked with a few men, and oversaw the inventing of the printing press, and then the Church came alive, and is finally fulfilling the job that you could have been doing if it weren’t for Satan controlling things for so long.

So you explain away the first 1500 years of Christendom as God teaching us a lesson? Wow. Who were these few men that God worked with that we should be indebted to?

Also, if you want to read about what a sweetheart Cromwell was here’s a link. There are many more but I don’t think swapping reformation horror stories is going to be very productive.

Cromwell

535 posted on 10/17/2001 5:09:03 AM PDT by pegleg
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