Oh goody. I love being caled a liar. Especially when I have the proof and Truth on my side. Let's go to the film, the full film, not the abbridged Havoc version.
Post 2789 Havoc responds to me
Me:Exactly! That's what Purgatory is. It is the change we go through.
Havoc:Uh, no. Purgatory is a work performed by the person aided by prayers of others - that's by definition of the RCC.
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Note Havoc first mentions prayers -- in the context of our prayers helping those in Purgatory. Which is the subject we were discussing.
Post 2792, I respond
I know the idea of Christians praying for each other is abhorent to you, but why is it I don't believe you know what the Catholic Church teaches?
Havoc here confuses things when I talk of Christians praying for each other. Even though he is the one who just talked about it. He thinks for some reason I am talking about praying with the dead saints.
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Now Post 2844 Havoc responds
Well, let's see. The idea of people praying for each other doesn't bother me in the slightest and never has. It's your doctrine of talking to dead people in violation of God's laws that is a bother to me. Blasphemy has a tendancy to bring out a really bad side in me.
Seems to me that he just brought up the "blashphemy" of Catholics praying to our dead saints. Or he thinks that we pray "to" people in Purgatory, instead of "for" them. Either way confusion has entered in by the name of Havoc.
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2851 I respond
Once again you speak from ignorance. Praying for the dead in Purgatory had nothing to do with praying with the "dead" saints in Heaven. Once again you confuse issues.
And here I point out the confuison Havoc has brought in.
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In post 2870, JHavard picks up on Havoc's confusion and asks me all about Catholics praying to their dead saints.
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In post 2875 I say
Jim, Havoc joined these two issues together and they should not be.
And we return to where we are.
I leave it to the good folks here to judge who threw in a different issue to confuse things.
SD
SD, I doubt seriously if any of us are going to go back through all those post and make a decision on who did what to whom when, But it does bring to point that to most Non's, the word Purgatory and pennants, prayers to the dead, for the dead, all seem to run together for me anyway, and if I don't believe in praying for the dead, I sure don't believe in praying to the dead, or to God for those who have already missed their chance.
If there was one bit of Biblical support for it, that would be different
JH