[Woodkirk]

You failed to answer my questions. Are you dancing for some reason? You made a claim -- back it up. Find a Strong's Concordance and look up the word. What word did Jesus use to mean "interest, usury" in Luke 19:23 and Matthew 25:27? Whether he spoke Aramaic at times or not -- you don't know. The only record of what he said is in the Greek of the Byzantine Text that the Greeks depended upon for centuries.

When in doubt you go to the videotape -- You say you trust the Word of God -- and you know what it means -- prove it from the only source that counts -- an absolute source

Did Jesus use the word "tokos" to mean "interest, usury" or not?. Did he ever use it anyother time to mean anything else? Answer the questions --- they are not hard. But if you don't know what you are talking about -- then sit down and quit taking up cyberspace.

[D-fendr]

Perhaps you'd like to join me in the little box we have made specially for this thread. We call it: "The Box For Those Who Made a Post They Regret Posting."

It's a hockey reference I believe.

[Fury]

Whether he spoke Aramaic at times or not -- you don't know. The only record of what he said is in the Greek of the Byzantine Text that the Greeks depended upon for centuries.

So, based on your logic, then Jesus only spoke Greek?

[the808bass]

Are you dancing for some reason?

When I dance, it is the surest form of contraception known to man, so, no, I'm not dancing. I'm merely allowing you to try to save some face with your riduculous flight of fancy in re: qeotokos.

But if you don't know what you are talking about -- then sit down and quit taking up cyberspace.

I thought my posts were rather civil. Since you have seen fit to question my knowledge on the subject in a roundabout sort of way, I will answer. My undergraduate degree is in Classical Greek language. Upon receiving that degree, I enrolled in a Master of Arts in New Testament theology with an emphasis on Greek language at my denomination's seminary. In total, I have over 30 hours of college credit in greek language training (I am not bragging. Merely answering your questioning of the basis of my reasoning in regards to the language). Would you care to share the nature of your knowledge of the Greek language?

Did Jesus use the word "tokos" to mean "interest, usury" or not?

Yes, he did. And let me tell you how I know. Pay very close attention here. I went to the Scriptures you cited (parellel passages, not that that means anything to you) and looked up the Greek. Then I read the sentence IN CONTEXT and saw that the word tokos was used. Then, I compared the various meanings within the semantic domain of the word qeotokos (Did you notice the words IN CONTEXT in the sentence before?). I saw that in the semantic domain of tokos "interest" or "usury" is a perfectly acceptable meaning. As the passage is speaking of money and investment, it seems plain IN CONTEXT that the word means "interest" AS IT IS USED IN THIS PASSAGE.

Do you have any idea how dictionaries are made? Do you have any idea how Strong's concordance was compiled? Your post doesn't seem to indicate such a knowledge. On what basis did you reject the clear dictionary definition with which you were presented? That it wasn't the Bible? The Bible did not create language or else it should've been a whole lot harder to understand. It USED THE LANGUAGE OF THE DAY (lingua franca for those of you playing along with the home version). Thus, the dictionaries of the languages in which it is written are immensely useful in helping us understand them. They are your friend. Use them to your advantage.

Finally, how would you translate qeotokos? I am most interested to hear your answer to this question. If you cannot answer this question, I shall have to write your ramblings off as not interested in any sort of truth. And be careful when you answer. Don't equivocate. Give me an exact translation of the word.

[the808bass]

Finally, how would you translate qeotokos?

Here's a hint. Not only do the Catholics take it very seriously that Mary was a virgin, all Christians take it very seriously that she was a woman. FWIW

[dadwags]

#24006
I think part of the Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic problem comes from the early writings . It would seem to be that Jesus and the Apostles spoke Aramaic and read Hebrew and/or Greek .
There was one of the early "fathers" who wrote that Matthew wrote in Aramaic or Hebrew , but all the existing copies are in Greek . That would present some problems for interpretation, IMHO .