[JHavard]

We have virtually no copies that can even be traced to a century after the autograph copy. At best we have (other than scraps) perhaps a tenth generation copy of the original (not that I am implying any error in transmision, just denying that we somehow have originals or first generation copies).

I realize that you have no copies earlier then the 4th century now, I am referring to when the original translations were done that the canon was developed on. Neither do you have an earlier copy of the Septaugint, that is why you can not conclusivly prove that it had the Apocryphal in it, right?

[IMRight]

Neither do you have an earlier copy of the Septaugint, that is why you can not conclusivly prove that it had the Apocryphal in it, right?

I guess that depends on who is deciding what is "conclusive" :-)
Actually I believe there are earlier copies of the Septtaugint (I believe that the Dead Sea scrolls may qualify) that certainly do include the contested books. The contest is based more on the fact that the Jews did not close their "canon" by some accounts until after the Christian canon was completed. So you have early Christians arguing that books should not be included in the OT if they were not Jewish Scripture.