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To: JHavard
through the Holy Spirit's guidance, made the final decision on the canon.

Agreed. Interesting that the Holy Spirit used the Catholics to do that though if they were not part of the body (not a claim I think you are making, but certainly one we have heard here).

you had nothing to do with writing them, you simply collected them,

If by that you mean the same thing as the Jews who finally closed their Scripture didn't write it themselves, sure. If you mean that Christians authored the Bible and Catholics aint part of them...no.

I'll ask you a question, do you think the Catholic Church ever had any intentions of mass producing them in an everyday language, then distributing them to the world?

If it hadn't been for the reformation they would still be in Latin, and only your clergy would be allowed to own them.

They absolutely would have! The only reason the Latin was the translation of the day was the same reason that the Bible of Jesus' day was in Greek. That was the language used by the largest number of literate people around the world. There almost certainly was a sinful desire on many church leaders to keep the club as small as possible, but there is a larger desire to maintain the integrity of the Scriptures. He who controls the translation of a text can change doctrine (look at Benjamin Franklin). It is in all of our interests to avoid willy-nilly translating of Scripture. Mass distribution was of course more closely related to cost and reliablity of copying. For the first several hundred years of the church, copies of Scripture were more valuable than the churches that held them. In some cases more than whole towns. They represented the faitful efforts of many thousands of man-hours of labor

Interestingly, this was hardly a Catholic failing alone. Did you know that the first English translation of the Scriptures printed in America was after the revolutionary war (Side note - It was printed by the U.S. Congress for "the use of our schools" kind of defeats that old notion that the founding fathers didn't want prayer in schools hmmm?). The Church of England controled who could translate the scriptures and it was against the law.

Another interesting example deals with the Deuterocanonical (or apocryphal) books of the OT. Did you know that it wasn't until the 1700s that the Puritans succeeded in getting copies of the KJV that did not include the Apocrypha? That's right, for over a hundred years the KJV included those "Catholic" books. I know it's true, I actually have a copy.

Isn’t that ironical, the ones that God gave the honor of sifting through all the manuscripts and preserving the word for the whole Christian world, should be the ones who now reject it as final authority, and do as the Jews did, put tradition and human authority over the written word.

I would love to see a source for that. The Church most certainly does NOT place tradition & human authority over Scripture. At their very "worst", they would place tradition, apostolic authority and Scripture as equals (with Scripture being "first among equals" in most understanding). "Apostolic authority" would recognize that God did not cease giving man revalation after the closing of Scripture (something non-Catholics can't agree on so I'm not sure which side of the fence you fall on). My example on abortion a few posts ago is a possible example.

1,672 posted on 10/21/2001 2:19:45 PM PDT by IMRight
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To: IMRight
Isn’t that ironical, the ones that God gave the honor of sifting through all the manuscripts and preserving the word for the whole Christian world, should be the ones who now reject it as final authority, and do as the Jews did, put tradition and human authority over the written word.

I would love to see a source for that. The Church most certainly does NOT place tradition & human authority over Scripture.

Do you mean one from the Catholic Encyclopedia or New Advent? No probably not, that is what we do on these threads every day.

Christ condemned the Pharisees for having the authority to lessen the burden on the people, but they refused to do so, simply to keep them in abject submission.

All other Churches have this same power to loose and to bind, and some have gone way too far at loosening, but your church is as tenacious as a pit bull, and even things like eating meat on Friday, which as most of your traditions, have no Biblical backing, still you refuse to do away with this useless law, for fear your empire might crumble.

You have painted yourself into a corner, and now you have no way out, you have to hold onto traditions that even your own hierarchy must wish weren't there, but you can't do anything about it now, because all of your traditions are foundational cards, in your house of cards.

1,676 posted on 10/21/2001 3:09:55 PM PDT by JHavard
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