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To: OLD REGGIE
I give you credit for a fanciful attempt but must give you an "f" for logic.

Ahh logic, such a strange sounding word from your side. Ok here look at it again, and please pay attention it really is obvious... "How shall I know this? For I am an old man, and my wife is advanced in years." vs " "How shall this be, since I have no husband?" Look at where the "?" mark is in each verse. Mary adds a qualifier indicating confusion at the declaration, not disbelief. Zechariah simply states "How shall I know this?" And to prove he understands what the Angel is saying he makes an argument that he is to old and so is his wife. He is justifying his disbelief. Mary isn't justifying any belief or disbelief, she is simply confused at the message. Zechariah=How am I supposed to believe this? It can't happen! Mary=I'm confused, how will this be done?

Oh! One more thing. Zechariah believed before Mary did because Elizabeth had been pregnant for 6 months before Mary was even tested. He, Zechariah, didn't have to speak, all he had to do was look. He believed.

Chronologically yes, but Mary never doubted thus she believes first. But it doesn't matter because as you should know (assuming you pay attention to it) it has nothing to do with my original argument, unless you make the claim that Zechariah believed in Jesus before Mary did.

Unqualified or not, I'm not the one wasting my time trying to prove the other guy wrong by interpreting Scripture against him. You however never even grasped my original point that Mary was the first human to believe in Jesus. You made an argument that has absolutely nothing to do with it. You just wanted to disagree.

1,588 posted on 10/20/2001 4:23:50 PM PDT by Pelayo
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To: Pelayo
Chronologically yes, but Mary never doubted thus she believes first. But it doesn't matter because as you should know (assuming you pay attention to it) it has nothing to do with my original argument, unless you make the claim that Zechariah believed in Jesus before Mary did.

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NAB Luke 1:
20 But now you will be speechless and unable to talk (9) until the day these things take place, because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled at their proper time."

34 But Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?" (12)
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(9) You will be speechless and unable to talk: Zechariah's becoming mute is the sign given in response to his question in v 18. When Mary asks a similar question in Luke 1:34, unlike Zechariah who was punished for his doubt, she, in spite of her doubt, is praised and reassured(Luke 1:35-37).

(12) Mary's questioning response is a denial of sexual relations and is used by Luke to lead to the angel's declaration about the Spirit's role in the conception of this child (Luke 1:35). According to Luke, the virginal conception of Jesus takes place through the holy Spirit, the power of God,

(These are NAB footnotes, not mine!)
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Oh, by the way, according to the NAB, Mary did doubt.

Perhaps your argument is with the NAB (your own Bible) rather than with me.

And, Zechariah had six months to believe in Jesus before Mary was even approached. Do you think he believed the devil did it?

You could make an argument that the reason Mary was praised rather than punished was becaused she was "blessed". I would actually agree with this.
1,592 posted on 10/20/2001 5:08:56 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE
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To: Pelayo
You however never even grasped my original point that Mary was the first human to believe in Jesus.

Why is this important to Catholics? Honestly, it sounds like she is part diety to some of you guys. No doubt she was a very virtuous girl and undoubtedly blessed by God, but she was a human needing to be redeemed by the blood of Jesus, her Saviour.

1,622 posted on 10/20/2001 8:44:47 PM PDT by hopefulpilgrim
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