The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
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[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

True enough, but unless you think their free will has been taken away, they can walk away voluntarily.

allend could you walk away?

BigMack

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Velveeta, Limburger, Cheddar, Guda, Provalone, Swiss, Monterey Jack, Colby, longhorn, Jalapeno, American, Ricotta, Romano, Parmisan, Mozzerella, cottage, Cheezewhiz, etc. brie, feta, blue, cream, fromage blanc, camembert, edam, muenster, and gorgonzola.

Have I died and gone to Heaven or what. On the other hand after this one might need an enema with a garden hose. :)

BigMack

[the808bass]

If we find ourselves inward/self-focused, we should take this as guidance that more growth should come.

D-fendr: Love your drive-by thoughts. Been missing you.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

ALL:

No problem. Does you family (or did your family) do a big meal on Christmas Eve?

It looks like we all are going to be spending our first Christmas together (you can come too angelo:) and I have been thinking, when all you guys go out to buy me a gift, don't spend over $500.00 or so. I ride a Ultra Glide Classic Harley and need some more chrome, just to give you all some ideas. Thanks in advance!

:)

BigMack

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

"Can you receive grace from God through a person, or just straight from God ?"

Straight from God, the only grace I have is from God. Give God the Glory!

BigMack

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I am simply quoting this for future reference for my own purposes, no need to be alarmed.

Don't give out your address. :)

BigMack

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Maybe that is why I feel OLD. I used to be just REGGIE.

You know your OLD when you take a bath and your B@lls flot.

:)

BigMack

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I'll attempt to post a pic of me and my kids....:o)

Add a little gray and you could pass for Colonel Sanders :) Great looking family tho.

BigMack

[OLD REGGIE]

Your commentary that Paul was a misoginist sounds to me more like something liberals would say (feminazis) than something I would read on FR.

Are you suggesting there is a litmus test for posting on FR? Are you the judge of who should post or what ideas may be espoused?
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While it is obvious from your views you are no fundamentalist, do you not even believe in the total inspiration and inerrancy of Scripture? As for your out of context quotes of Paul, you conveniently left this one out:

Galations 3:28-29

There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Oh good. You are in agreement that we all, men and women, are one in Christ Jesus. I totally agree with you that this is an inspired statement by Paul. No qualifications. No personal opinions. So different from this:

1Tim.2:

[1]First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men,
[2] for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way.
[3] This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
[4] who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
[5] For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
[6] who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time.

(Certainly you don't believe Pauls' use of the word "men" means any less than "all". I hope.)

[7] For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
[8]I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling;
[9] also that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire
[10] but by good deeds, as befits women who profess religion.
[11] Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness.
[12] I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.

[13] For Adam was formed first, then Eve;
[14] and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
[15] Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.

There goes the equality shown in Galations 3. Of course, in Galations Paul does not qualify it with the statement that it was his personal thought. In his letter to Timothy he makes it very clear what he personally does and thinks.

Which is it. Are women equal in the eyes of the Lord or they a lesser creature who "was deceived and became a transgressor" and "will be saved through bearing children."
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Just because he believes in different roles for men and women, that doesn't mean he is sexist, because he and I and most of Christianity agree with him on this, not you.

We are not talking about different roles here. We are talking about different "class".

It never occurred to me to put it to a vote. I believe what I believe and the "majority vote" won't sway me.
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BTW I don't believe this question is a "salvation" issue. Furthermore, there is no Biblical prohibition concerning women in the clergy.

[OLD REGGIE]

You know your OLD when you take a bath and your B@lls flot.

I don't bathe. No, I don't stink. I just can't climb into and out of the bathtub. I had to convert a linen closet into a stall shower just so I wouldn't kill myself. OLD BONES - BAD KNEES.

[DouglasKC]

Are you espousing the "toxic sperm buildup" theory?

No, I've never heard of that, but it sounds serious.

This kind of talk lends creedance to the notion that St. Paul was a closet homosexual

Never heard that one either. I'm just saying that he felt more Godly not giving in to sexual impulses because perhaps because he equated carnality with sexuality and was trying to remain as spiritual as he could.

[OLD REGGIE]

The beauty of a forum such as this is that we hear from people with vastly different ideas, personalties, tacticts, and beliefs. It is natural that, on occassion, we might be upset by what we percieve to be a personal attack. It may well be personal, and it may well be an attack but it can't hurt us. We can only learn from it. Another thing. You can't get a black eye.

I admit a few times when I have been unreasonably angry by what I have felt was an unfair personal attack. The dumbest thing I have done is to respond in kind; right now. Conversely, the smartest thing I have done is put it aside for the time being. After going to bed, contemplating my navel, and maybe a short prayer, I sleep like a baby. When I wake up there is no anger left. If I had learned this many years ago I would have had, and have caused, much less grief. So be it. We live and learn.

That doesn't mean I don't have fun with a few "zings" now and then.

Matthew 5:

21 "You have heard that it was said to the men of old, 'You shall not kill; and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment.'
22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire.
23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,
24 leave your gift there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
25 Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison;
26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.
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Hint: I believe this can all be accomplished in our own mind. If you let go of all anger and truly forgive, it is done.

[dadwags]

#7372
"Make friends with your accuser...."Matt 25 &26.."Truly, I say to you you will never get out until you have paid the last penny ."
Looks to me like a reference to Purgatory .

[OLD REGGIE]

Make friends with your accuser...."Matt 25 &26.."Truly, I say to you you will never get out until you have paid the last penny ."

Looks to me like a reference to Purgatory .

By golly, it does. We don't even need Maccabees anymore.

[Iowegian]

Do you think Peter was just stating his own personal opinions as well, or was he writing under the inspiration of God? Here are his words and they aren't much different that Paul's:

1 Peter 3:

1 Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3 Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. 4 Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. 5 For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, 6 like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

Now clearly, they have a different view of the role of women in society than the modern American does, but why are you correcting the apostles rather than learning from their teachings? Are Peter and Paul sexists because they don't tell the women to stand up to men and dump off the kids every day and go out and make a seperate identity for themselves by getting a job away from home? Society and the church would function much better if we would all take their words to heart and follow them. Boy I hope my wife doesn't read this :-)

But seriously, many women have been forced to change their proper role to a different role because men refuse to fulfill their God-given responsiblities in their families and church. Sad, but true.

[Iowegian]

We don't even need Maccabees anymore.

Neither do the Jews, since they don't include it in their canon either.

[D-fendr]

Very kind of you to say, bass, and very much appreciated.

I sure hope all is going well for you now…

[nobdysfool]

Add a little gray and you could pass for Colonel Sanders :) Great looking family tho

Thanks! Actually, there's more gray than shows in the pic. Since it was my son's wedding (could you tell from the tuxedos?), I colored my hair to hide all the gray, and my beard, too. Primarily I did it just to tick off my ex-wife...and she was ticked. The years haven't been as kind to her as they have to me, and she had been a thorn in my side for quite a while. Maybe not exactly the Christian thing to do, but I didn't have to say a word. What you can't see in the pic is the ponytail about 1/3 of the way down my back....that really sent her blood pressure up...:o) I have since cut it off. It was my little fling of madness...

[nobdysfool]

That doesn't mean I don't have fun with a few "zings" now and then.

Sometimes they leave themselves wide open for one...I don't harbor any malice toward anyone here, or anyone in general. When we get into the depths of a debate, I try to remain calm, and patient, but I can be a street fighter when cornered. I have learned much here, and I have reconsidered my views on some things. There are some things that I'm very settled in my belief about, and I will defend my point of view vigorously, as you've seen. The Gifts of the Spirit is one area where I know what I believe, and why, and have had personal experience, so when someone comes along and says it's baloney, I can't remain silent. If I sounded a little hard on Nate, it was nothing personal. I try to address what the person says, and not attack the person.

[nobdysfool]

Now clearly, they have a different view of the role of women in society than the modern American does, but why are you correcting the apostles rather than learning from their teachings?

Many people make the mistake of viewing old cultures through the biases of modern life. Some look at Paul and say he was sexist, but sexism is a concept that has only come about in the couple decades. To judge Paul by those standards is to do him a dis-service. In his day, that was normal and right. We must view things in their proper historical contect if we hope to learn from them.