The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
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[The_Reader_David]

So you don't care to reply to my post #691. A little troubling to your position, Jesus talking to the dead Moses isn't it. We are to imitate Christ. If we are only to imitate Christ in all things, except when he violated Old Covenant Law, do you still keep the Jewish sabbath? Do you keep kosher?

[OLD REGGIE]

#715 So it DOESN"T extend to Jesus, even thou the Jews were adamant about no statues of Yahweh in the temple!(Surprising both Alexander and Pompey, I think)

Are you putting words in my mouth?

[hopefulpilgrim]

Well, it very much matters if you think dead people are dead, or if you think they are alive....Nobody is "conjuring" up anyone. We are merely imploring our friends for their assistance. Now if you think they are "dead" dead and "waiting" for the resurrection to occur that is one argument to make. I believe that God, being timeless, is with the Resurrected today. Whatever "today" means to God.

Right. Look for all the loop-holes you can. Don't take His word at face value; find a way to get around it. Talk to departed (if you like that word better) people...whatever; anything to get people's eyes off Christ, the Preeminent One.

[SoothingDave]

I thought your argument was that since Jesus came it was now lawful to make images of Him and His people?? If that is indeed your argument, then that implies that it was not legal prior to His coming. Now you say it was legal before he came. Did you mispeak???

Before Jesus came there was no way to "image" God. therefore images to be used in worship were strictly prohibited. Except for the images commanded by God for His Ark, of course.

Besides the Hebrews, other cults were all centered on idols cast to resemble something. This was idolatry and bad. Were the idol a blank slate (that is, not a representation of anything) it woudl still be idolotry to worship it.

Now that Jesus has come, we can put a face to God. We don't worship the images, we worship the entity represented by the images.

We can also picture a "hall of fame" of Christians if we wish. If it is OK to use matter to represent God, surely matter can represent other lesser creature.

Now if we abandon our carnal thinking and think of God as demanding spiritual obedience from us, we can see that God cares more about the things we value in life than he does the things we create with our hands. IF we hold up the saints in higher regard than God this is of course idolotry. If we make a nice picture of St. Francis, but regard it in its proper place it is not.

If we clean out our houses of all images of anything, lest we trip up on the letter of the commandment, but spend our days chasing after money or fame or power, we have made spiritual idols.

The way you folks mistake the carnal for the spiritual show the lack of discernment evident in your thinking.

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

Interesting article on NewsMax. It is important to all of us.

Health of the Pope

[SoothingDave]

How sad it is that you still think death represents a barrier between Christians. Didn't Jesus die to prove that death has no meaning?

SD

[hopefulpilgrim]

As for statues of saints, when you understand how we use them, to focus our mind on the person being remembered, to teach us about the lives of those who went before us, who can see any wrong in that?

Like I said, let's all focus on images and statues of dead...I mean, departed, people. Let's contact them and beseech them to help us...So THAT'S why cemetaries are so crowded and colorful around Oct. 31!!! Anything to get people's eyes off Jesus, the Lord of LIFE!!

[RobbyS]

Won't have to, if you answer the question: Are statues of Jesus idols?

[RobbyS]

Anything to get people's eyes off Jesus, the Lord of LIFE!! The people who forget their dead are more likely to forget Jesus.

[OLD REGGIE]

Won't have to, if you answer the question: Are statues of Jesus idols?

Won't have to if you answer the question: Is Mary more important than Jesus?

[JohnnyM]

but SD, you have yet to quote a verse.

JM

[hopefulpilgrim]

Before Jesus came there was no way to "image" God. therefore images to be used in worship were strictly prohibited. ...Besides the Hebrews, other cults were all centered on idols cast to resemble something. This was idolatry and bad. Were the idol a blank slate (that is, not a representation of anything) it would still be idolotry to worship it... Now that Jesus has come, we can put a face to God.

You are good at justifying disobedience. What you have done is theorize God's reasons for giving the command, and then look for a way to get around those reasons.

[OLD REGGIE]

All of his writings are of great historical and theological interest. That is not to say they are infallible. Everyone makes mistakes. Even popes make mistakes when expressing their personal opinions.

In other words; you really do have a "cafeteria" theology. Sift out what suits your purposes and reject the rest. The Magesterium of the Church" is the most important element???

[RobbyS]

Is Mary more important than Jesus? What a question! Of course not. Now, are the statues of Jesus that I seen in Protestant or nondenominational graveyards, idols?

[SoothingDave]

Like I said, let's all focus on images and statues of dead...I mean, departed, people. Let's contact them and beseech them to help us...

When you die, do you wish your husband or wife to remember you?

If you and your spouse prayed together yesterday, and today s/he dies, can you no longer pray together?

Is that bond between you gone?

So THAT'S why cemetaries are so crowded and colorful around Oct. 31!!! Anything to get people's eyes off Jesus, the Lord of LIFE!!

It's called "Halloween." It used to be a Celtic new year celebration until it was Christianized into All Saints day (and eve). It's when we remember those who have gone on before us and pray for those who might need a little help.

I realize this is shocking, remembering the dead and praying for mercy from God for them.

SD

[al_c]

Jesus Christ. Do you still think so?

LOL! (I expected that answer).

[hopefulpilgrim]

The people who forget their dead are more likely to forget Jesus.

Say again, please? I don't understand that statement.

[RobbyS]

The Magesterium of the Church" is the judgement the Church makes on such matters. Even what individual popes say have to be submitted to the process and evaluated.