Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
I almost forgot. The drewids have to have had something to do with Velveeta. They say it's a cheese spread, and yet I've never seen anybody spread it.
SD
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Are saying that you would put this question to me, or are you actually doing so? ;o)
Judaism does not have "saints" in the sense that Catholicism does. It just isn't a Jewish concept. Do we believe that there are those who have died who are now in heaven with God? Yes. So these people would meet the Catholic definition of a saint, I suppose. But we do not believe that we can pray to them for their intercession on our behalf.
Suffering alone is not transformative. What suffering can do is slap us upside the head and remind us that our petty day-to-day concerns are not the most important thing in life. It reminds us that we do not have as much power and control as we think we do. It can cause us to turn to God for answers, for consolation, and for strength. Ultimately, it is God that transforms us.
As I have tried to point out, we DON'T HAVE the original, and what is inspired is the Bible, which represents how God acted in history UP TO A CERTAIN POINT IN TIME We say the year I00 A.D.; Angelo would use some date several hundred years before that. We only believe it is inspired because someone we trust has told us it is inspired.
Look I am not trying to convert you. I am not trying to be insulting. I AM frustrated. I just want to know what catholic's BELIEVE. But the words you all use are so ambiguous. Channel, ultimate. These words can be taken in several ways.
Are you saying that grace comes from God THROUGH us. Or does grace go directly to a person who has accepted salvation on God's terms BECAUSE we told them the gospel.
To me these are two different things, and from the wording, that you didn't wirte:), I'm not sure what is being said.
So what do catholics believe? Can you receive grace from God througha person, or just straight from God?
Becky
Slain in the spirit: Struck by the power of God (plenty of examples in both OT and NT, such as Daniel being on his face in the presence of the angel, etc.); tongues (someone stepping out in faith to speak) without interpretation (no one else being bold enough to complete the process, meaning that God's gifts are coming through human vessels), sorry it's not as perfect as you'd like it to be; prayer language: the term isn't found in the NT, but there are passages that indicate that this is a valid concept: "For the Spirit helps our infirmities, for we know not how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit himself makes intercession for us with groanings that cannot be uttered." "I thank God I speak in tongues more than you all" But IN THE CHURCH I would rather speak five words with my understanding, to teach others, than ten thousand in an unknown tongue." " But how is it then, brethren? When you come together EVERY ONE OF YOU has a psalm, has a doctrine, HAS A TONGUE, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let ALL things be done unto edyifying (emphasis mine).
Your objections have more to do with perceived disorder than with actual practice. In the case of tongues, there is a public and private use. You confuse the two. And, because sometimes tongues are given and no interpretation follows, you then say that it proves that it is wrong, rather than understand that we are all "Christians under construction" and as such mistakes will be made. I think you're a lot more offended by that than God is. As for private use of tongues, can you really make any sort of case that this is wrong? What harm comes from it? What damage does it do? I've been doing so for 29 years now...are you seriously going to tell me that my walk with God has been derailed or damaged because of that? No way, my friend, it has enhanced and edified, it has drawn me closer to Him, it has blessed me when there were no words I could say to pour my heart out to God. I feel for those who can't or won't accept this gift. They don't know what they're missing.
And an Italian one at that! First of all Velveeta, tasty as it is, is not actually cheese. Ditto Cheezwhiz. Secondly, Parmesan cheese is truly Parmiagiano-Reggiano (It's like Minneapolis-St. Paul, they get mad if you don't mention both cities.)
Third, you forgot Asiago.
SD
Either way. We are Christ's body in the world. As members of that body we can indeed be the channel, or conduit, through which God's grace is given.
SD
Please elucidate and enunciate...I find this statement to be VERY disturbing!
I see you accept the tradition of Italians when it comes to cheese as well. I wonder if you can provide me a link explaining the succession of cheese? :-)
No link needed. If the head cheese (hey, there's another one!) dies, he is succeeded by the vice cheese. After that goes the Speaker of the Cheese, followed by the Cheese pro tempore. Then we get to the cabinets and select the chief cheese of each according to expiration date.
SD
That's because the Packer fan cheese canon is larger than that of the rest of NFL fandom. I can see right off the bat that you missed brie, feta, blue, cream, fromage blanc, camembert, edam, muenster, and gorgonzola.
Becky
SD
I'm curious. What purpose does praying in tongues serve? What about it makes it a manifestation of the Spirit of God?
I don't believe that answered my question. You said the cross wasn't necessary, it was chosen (I paraphrase here, but i think it sums up your statement). I disagree. What other method could God use to redeem mankind? Prophetic passages in the OT state that He must be lifted up. A cross certainly accomplishes that. Suspended between heaven and earth. Are you saying that any old death would do? that He could have been stoned, or beaten to death, or run through with a sword? Tossed into a pit of wild lions? Drawn and quartered?
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