The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
TNS Archives

[malakhi]

I registered twice, giving an alternate email address. Both times my registration seemed to be accepted and I was promised an authorization email. I checked my alternate address for two days and, no mail. (I think the sneaks saw that I was not signed on to that "particular" email address at the time).

I don't want this to be a problem for people. I'll see if I can jigger with the settings so that registration is not necessary.

[SoothingDave]

Good Morning Soothing Dave. :-)

What do you mean by that? ;-)

SD

[ksen]

Is Salvation(getting to Heaven) a work of God or a work of Man? If it is a work of Man then why did Christ have to die?

"[16]Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. . . [21]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” – Ga 2:16,21

If it is a work of God then it will last forever.

”I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor anything taken from it: and god doeth it, that men should fear before him.” – Ecc 3:14

I think that we are thinking too linearly (is that a word?) about God and Salvation.

”That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and god requireth that which is past” – Ecc 3:15

What are some of the attributes of God? For one He is Omnipotent, that is He is all-powerful, there is nothing mightier than He. He is also Omniscient, He is all-knowing, there is nothing that He does not know or that is hid from Him. He is also Omnipresent, He is all-present, there is nowhere you can go on earth or in Heaven where He would not be.

Finally, He is Omnitemporal (new word?) that is He is present at every moment of history past, present, and future. For God everything is a constant IS. He does not have to wait for anything to happen. There is no difference for Him. The moment of Creation, the Crucifixion, the Resurrection, the Rapture, the coming Kingdom, all are constant to Him, including the moment of our Salvation.

For us there was a time when we were not Saved and then a time when we were, we noticed a transition. For God there is no distinction, to Him either we are Saved or we are not. To Him there has not been a time when we were not His and then a time when we were His. We have always been His from the Foundation of the World.

If you are Saved and reading this post, did you know that you are in the Bible? Look at Re 19:1,

”And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:” – Re 19:1

Those much people, are us!

Well, those are my thoughts. That is how I understand God and Salvation. Taking God’s Nature into account I don’t know how Salvation(Eternal Life) can be anything other than secure.

-ksen
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The above is reposted from #6538. I am sorry for the repost but I would like to hear people's thoughts. Am I totally wrong for viewing Salvation and God this way? It is the only way that I can reconcile Free Will with Predestination. For us here in time we have complete Free Will. For God in Eternity everything IS.

-ksen

[SoothingDave]

Hey angelo, I had an idea last night that might make some more sense of this whole "necessary to be subject to the Roman Pontiff" thing. It is actually very similar to our belief on Baptism. We likewise believe that it is absolutely necessary for everyone to get baptised or they can't go to heaven.

Then we turn around and say "but we can't imagine a merciful God damning innocent children who were never baptised, or the unborn, etc." So I guess the point is that if we are accused of using doublethink or "cognitive dissonance" in unabsolutising our absolutes, you haven't found the only instance.

SD

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Did someone say CHEESE, MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM GOOD. :)

Who's turn is it to cut the cheese today? :-)

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Yes I do believe in a one time act of being saved. Someone who is saved will not give God traits that he doesn't have. We let God be God, take him at his Word, and accept the whole plan, not just what we want to.

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

If she doesn't let ya come in, come on over, I got a crock pot full of beans waiting.

Thank you, got any cheese? She let me back in when I told her I wouldn't buy any more horse feed. But shes still being mean, will you pray for me? :)

BigMack

[Invincibly Ignorant]

by the way 6825 was meant for big mack...oops.

[ksen]

My wife called the company that makes the shot and asked them if they could waive the rest of the payment and had someone tell her that our co-pay was "cheaper than a funeral."

Nice guys, so how many acts of penance does your wife have to do after tearing the guys head off over the phone? ;^)

Reminds me of what C.S.Lewis wrote in Mere Christianity. He basically said that the women's role was to protect the family: her kids, her husband, etc. Lewis then went on to say that it was the husband's job to protect the rest of the world from his wife. He illustrated it by saying if you accidently did something to little Johnny who would you rather face, little Johnny's mom or little Johnny's dad? ;^)

Seriously though, I will be praying that God works this situation out for your family.

-ksen

[OLD REGGIE]

"Paul is a unique character to all Christians. When he relegates women to second class status our RC friends believe he was infallibly inspired. When He says all Bishops must be married and have children, he really "didn't mean it that way.

I happen to believe he was a misogamist and a mysogynist. I also believe he lorded it over Peter, but that is another story."
------------------------------------------------------------

I disagree with everything in this statement.

Do you disagree that "I believe" what I said "I believe"?

Do you disagree that Paul relegates women to second class status?

Do you disagree that Paul says Bishops must be married, etc.?

I'm not surprised you take exception to my belief. You are not alone here.

Caveat; I am not necessarily speaking "context" here.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Ahh, a most intriguing question. You are married to one who is most wise, and who surely is deserving of a glass of water... ;o)

And I can't get her to come and push the button on my tv remote control either, shes always been mean to me. :(

BigMack

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

It is shameful that Protestants attempt to make of these differing groupings something scandalous.

It is shameful when protestants do that, as an IFBB my point was to teach Douglas the differences in the different groups. There is a difference. He is asking questions about the differences in religions. I know what I believe and I know some things about Catholics. My statement should have in no way been offensive to any one who was not always on the defensive and looking for insults. Huummmm...Funny there where several people who got defensive. Are you ashamed of something Dave:)

Becky

[SoothingDave]

For us there was a time when we were not Saved and then a time when we were, we noticed a transition. For God there is no distinction, to Him either we are Saved or we are not. To Him there has not been a time when we were not His and then a time when we were His. We have always been His from the Foundation of the World.

Well, those are my thoughts. That is how I understand God and Salvation. Taking God’s Nature into account I don’t know how Salvation(Eternal Life) can be anything other than secure.

You have a very nuanced view and I am hard pressed to find anything flawed in your thinking. (I especially like the part about God not being in time. Keep that in mind next time we talk about praying for the dead, eh?)

Of course I have to have an objection to the notion of "secure salvation." It is quite simple and undercuts any argument -- Everything you say is true for the saved. But how can you know you are among them. God knows. You do not. Until you reach the end.

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

Oh good grief. We explain doctrine to you, and still you put out the same misconceptions. You're getting like some of these Protestants.

Or, even worse, an objective observer!

[SoothingDave]

It is shameful when protestants do that, as an IFBB my point was to teach Douglas the differences in the different groups. There is a difference. He is asking questions about the differences in religions.

My apologies for impugning your motives. You are right that often we crouch in a defensive stance, waiting for the other shoe to drop.

SD

[RobbyS]

Some power play! It was more like a quarter-back sneak by a team on its own 2-yard line. The city in which the Council was being held was about to be taken over by nationalists hostile to the Church, or religion for that matter. Ironically, thse anti-religious regimes strengthened the papacy by depriving local bishops of any real ability to play local princes against Rome. Looking at the antipapalism of the liberal "Catholics" in the United States--the NCR crowd--one can see how this worked historically.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

by the way 6825 was meant for big mack...oops.

See Becky these guys know that you can cut the cheese better than me. :)

Steven your on your own now, I will pray for you. :)

BigMack

[SoothingDave]

Thank you. It just looks like another debt to rack up. Hopefully someone will give us some terms and we won't have to put it on a credit card.

SD

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story Alternate Site

I have changed the settings on the alternate site so that you will NOT be required to register in order to post on the board. Here is how it works. When you click on 'reply' (to a specific post) or 'Add Reply' (to post to the thread), you will get a screen with fields for:

Your User Name:
Your Password:
Subject:
Your Comment:

If you are a registered user, and logged in, just post as you normally would. If you are not logged in, filling out the first two fields will log you in.

If you are NOT a registered user, simply type in your name in the first field, leave the password field BLANK, and type in your comment. (NOTE: there must be something in the 'Subject' field or it won't post). Your post will be marked as by an 'unregistered user'.

Its that simple!

I will try it this way and see how it works.