The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
TNS Archives

[SoothingDave]

A little good news for you! Eggs are mentioned a few times in the Hebrew scriptures. But you do get one mention of "egg" (singular) in Luke.

Yes, my friend, but what of bacon? (Ummmm. Baconnnnnnn) :-)

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

You don't know why why the dogma was proclimed, do you? In any case, the practical effect was to give the Roman pontiff more power within the church than he had ever had before.

I gave you what I thought were several reasons; chief among them, a political power play.

Are you going to tell me what the real reason was?

[JohnnyM]

"It is, rather, we who are dedicating the statue to help us in our faith."

How can a statue help you in your faith? It's statements like these that make people wary of all the statues used in Catholicism. If the statue can help you in your faith, then it implies special meaning and value beyond that of a statue, and if that special meaning or value pertains to your walk with Christ, then it is very dangerous indeed.

JM

[SoothingDave]

The psalms are poetry. They include a great deal of imagery and metaphor.

True, but the same can be said for most of the Bible, including some of the passages you cited as Messianic.

They are thus easily literalized and misinterpreted.

Yes, but also true for much of Scripture.

Iowegian, are you really saying that the Bible contains much imagery which is easily misinterpreted? I find this admission interesting for a member of your "side," which usually argues differently.

SD

[SoothingDave]

My understanding of this is that we are not to make any image of a man, beast, fish, or fowl for the purpose of representing God, a god, or in anyway creating an object that would give rise to worship, or be used as focal object for worship. It would seem that it could include a Crucifix also, especially since it has a human figure attached to it. On the other hand, this was part of Mosaic Law, and Gentiles were never bound by it. Robby asked about the Ark of the Covenant, and the Tabernacle (or was it the Temple? same difference). In Robbys question, the Ark and the Tabernacle/Temple did not represent anything on earth, nor were they the image of a man, beast, fish or fowl; Therefore, this prohibition wouldn't apply.

The outside of the ark was decorated, under orders from God, with images of cherubim, among others. God didn't seem to think that that would distract others from worshipping Him.

I guess maybe the best way to determine it is to ask, Does it look like an idol? Is it an object of worship? Is it a focal point for worship? Does it distract from true worship? If the answer to any one or more of these questions is "yes", then it probably shouldn't be there.

We don't believe that sacred images distract from true worship. I am sure others might disagree.

SD

[JohnnyM]

How can you say that Psalms 22 is not prophetic. David is describing death on a cross, which hadn't even existed at his time, and pretty much describes to the detail certain aspects of Christ's death.

Psalm 22:14-18
"I am poured out like water, And all my bones are out of joint; My heart is like wax; It is melted within me. My strength is dried up like a potsherd, And my tongue cleaves to my jaws; And You lay me in the dust of death. For dogs have surrounded me; A band of evildoers has encompassed me; They pierced my hands and my feet. I can count all my bones. They look, they stare at me; They divide my garments among them, And for my clothing they cast lots."

I dont recall David ever having his hands and feet pierced, not did they divide his garments or cast lots for his clothing. This is pretty prophetic of what happened to Christ on the Cross.

JM

[SoothingDave]

Some have a problem with Crucifixes, but since my conversion was precipitated in part by viewing one, I'm probably not the one to pass judgement on that one. At the moment it happened, I was, for all intents and purposes, viewing the actual crucifixion, and reacted accordingly. Since then, I have not felt any need to have one, to seek one out, or to attach any particular significance to one as a method of getting saved. God sovereignly used one to get my attention. I don't say that it proves that God endorses, or doesn't endorse Crucifixes.

Excuse me if I find this amazing. Are you perhaps suggesting that the manner in which your salvation was realized, or the impetus for your salvation may have been a sin? That you entered a Catholic Church, looked at the Crucifix and were reminded of the real Crucifixion, brought to your knees in repentence, but Crucifixes might be evil?

SD

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Hey Waynes' World. Omish, not.

[SoothingDave]

How can a statue help you in your faith? It's statements like these that make people wary of all the statues used in Catholicism. If the statue can help you in your faith, then it implies special meaning and value beyond that of a statue, and if that special meaning or value pertains to your walk with Christ, then it is very dangerous indeed.

How can a statue help you in your faith? Maybe you place it next to your nightstand and it is the first thing you see in the morning and it reminds you of your purpose on earth? Is that bad?

SD

[al_c]

ALL: We still talking about sheep? Luke 15:1-10

Thursday, November 8, 2001

First Reading: Responsorial Psalm: Gospel:

Romans 14:7-12 Psalms 27:1-4, 13-14 Luke 15:1-10 The saints have always been the source and origin of renewal in the most difficult moments in the Church's history.  -- Pope John Paul II

And some wise words from the usual site ...

We do not live to ourselves and we do not die to ourselves. (Romans 14:7)

Paul had caught wind of the fact that the Christians in Rome were bickering. Some saw themselves as better than others. And so he asked them, "Why do you pass judgment" or even "despise your brother and sister?" (Romans 14:10). After all, he argued, all Christians have given their lives to the Lord and therefore belong to him (14:7-9). What's more, "We will all stand before the judgment seat of God" (14:10). Since God is the judge, Paul said, stop judging your brothers and sisters! Look instead to your own relationship with God!

Paul's words encourage us not just to stop judging fellow believers in Christ but to think differently about ourselves: who we are, where we come from, and where we're going. The most essential piece of information here is that we belong to a God who is for us and who loves us immensely. We belong to a God who wants us to know, love, and serve him, and be with him forever. To that end, God invites us to see ourselves as his--not as slaves belonging to a master, but as children of a loving Father.

We all know how children resemble their parents and take on family characteristics as they grow up. This is meant to happen in God's family, too. As we yield to God's authority over our lives, his image develops in us. This is not just theory. It has practical consequences for our everyday conduct and decisions. How do we spend our time? How do we use the resources that God has given us? How do we relate to the people in our lives? In every area of life God has a way of thinking and acting that he wants us to adopt.

This month, when it is traditional to remember those who have died and to consider the end of life, why not take a closer look at your relationship with the Lord? Are you living as if you belong to him? Are there areas of your life that are not under his authority? Don't put off turning to your Father. He longs to help you. In time of need, he is always there for you.

"Father, I come to you in humble surrender. You are the Lord. I am not. Help me in those areas of my life where I most need your loving guidance."

--------------------

Have a great day, everyone!

[ksen]

I believe the Jewish people translate the word "pierced" in Ps 22 "gnawed". They may have the same root word, but I am not sure.

-ksen

[Invincibly Ignorant]

And we hardly talk about cheese at all here! ;o)

Leave it to a Packer fan to get us all wound up about cheese again.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

And we hardly talk about cheese at all here! ;o)

Did someone say CHEESE, MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM GOOD. :)

BigMack

[SoothingDave]

Leave it to a Packer fan to get us all wound up about cheese again.

Did you say "wound up" or "bound up"?

SD

[Invincibly Ignorant]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to turn the whole idol thing into a catholic bashing

Don't worry Doug. You can say "good morning" to some of them and that's catholic bashing.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Good Morning Al. :-)

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Good Morning Soothing Dave. :-)

[Invincibly Ignorant]

I haven't had any real baked beans, with molasses and fat pork, in almost 60 years. Oh, how I miss that.

You're a real big help Reggie. I'm trying to skip lunch today.

[SoothingDave]

Have a great day, everyone!

We find out today that Blue Cross is trying to screw us on some shots we need for the baby. Since she's a preemie she needs to get a series of shots during flu season for a particular virus which we all have gotten before, but which can lead to death in about 50% of the cases if a preemie gets it. Blue Cross doesn't believe this is necessary and will only pay 70% of the cost. She will need to get one a month for 5 months. The shot costs $1400 each.

My wife called the company that makes the shot and asked them if they could waive the rest of the payment and had someone tell her that our co-pay was "cheaper than a funeral."

SD