Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
So does this mean Boniface was fallible until Vatican II when he got voted a "get out of jail free" card?
Broadly speaking, yes.
I may not get back till later this afternoon
No problem. I do hope you read the article I linked when you get a chance. I think you will find it quite interesting.
but suffice it to say that you have me thinking. It would be so much easier if you just picked a few "scandalous" quotes out and ranted and raved and threw in a few "doctrine of demons" and railed about how the whole thing is built on a lie-filled foundation of sand. :-)
Hey, what're friends for! ;o)
You're probably right, it should have been more in line with SD's prayer, huh?
"Oh Lord, please help Reggie stop being an a$$hole."
ya mean like when people pray with robes on and broad phylacteries?
Was Paul "infallible"? or Peter or James or the Gospel authors?
Being in a position of authority over God's people does NOT mean that you can declare that "the Redskins will win this weekend" and have it be infallible. Each of the examples given above is a fallible man who made many fallible statements, but was still used by God to act in an infallible manner.
Sorry if this point has already been made. I haven't been following the conversation.
Good words. I do not pray in tongues and admit I don't know how to pray. I wish that I did. Here you have two witnesses who don't know each other witnessing to a supernatural experience today. I hope you take heed because a day may come where this witness will give you the faith you need to reach out with belief and ask God for the things He simply wants you to hunger and thirst for.
As I have learned this is by no means an end all, but another step toward God. Embrace it and allow it to enrich your walk with God. I tell you all now as God is my witness if you would fast and sincerely seek this gift He will give it to you today. I actually told people I was going to get the Holy Ghost. Pauls words convinced me it was mine for the asking. Allow no one between you and Pauls words. This generation has much work to do there is no time for vain bickering. No earthly organization can save you.
Could you expand on this a bit? Are you talking about denomination?
Yes, but I had to think for a moment about what else I might have been talking about...lol.
Good ... I thought for a minute there that I should answer "a smart aleck."
But seriously, I'm Catholic. Maybe the two go hand in hand? ;o)
Somebody set us up the cheese!
Pius IX, Encyclical "Quanto conficamur moerore," 1863: ................................
It is known to Us and to you that they who labor in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion
..............................
Proddies and IFBB's, can you make heads or tails of this? He seems to be asserting as true two completely mutually exclusive things.
6536 posted on 11/7/01 10:17 AM Mountain by angelo
Steven(Invincibly Ignorant) seems to understand it; he should answer it for us.
I have no idea what is going on, but It is not needed for my salvation.
Barukh haba b'Shem Adonai
Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord
XeniaSt
Huh?
Gotta run, I've got a class to teach - I'll check in later.
He only reveals himself to those he respects, and endorses.
Welcome, Muttly. We're glad to know that you respect and endorse us enough to join this neverending discussion. Stick around a while ... it's fun!
Wait a minute, don't go. Answer my question.
My situation is somewhat unusual. The quick version is this: My father is Catholic, and my mother is Jewish. I was baptized and raised nominally Catholic. I never received confirmation as a teen, because I could not in conscience profess wholehearted assent to the teachings of the Church. After I graduated from high school, I went through a period of spiritual searching. I became functionally agnostic, but was seeking Truth. I studied eastern religions and dabbled with a little new age nonsense. I attended a variety of different Christian churches, including a nondenominational bible church on a fairly regular basis with my then-girlfriend. An interest in mysticism led me to the writings of the Catholics such as John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila. Their works led me back to the Catholic Church.
I was confirmed and married in the Catholic Church, and for several years was as orthodox a Catholic as SD, dignan3 and the others. The death of a childhood friend of mine (he was killed by a drunk driver) made me start giving more thoughts to some doubts I had been suppressing. My friend was baptized Catholic, but was not religious in any formal sense. He had gotten pretty messed up as an adult, but was trying to get his life back in order before his untimely death. Yet, according to Catholic teaching, it seemed likely that he died in a state of mortal sin, and thus was condemned to hell for all eternity. I looked to scripture and to Catholic and other Christian writers for answers; I read and reread the gospels. The more I read them, the more confusing it became to me. At one point, it occurred to me that perhaps in order to better understand Jesus, it would be helpful to know more about his religious and cultural background.
I began studying Judaism with this purpose in mind. I had no intention of becoming Jewish. But as I studied it, it struck a deep chord in me. I felt that God was calling me back to the faith of my ancestors. Ultimately, I resolved my problems with Christianity by rejecting its truth claims.
This, in brief, is how a Sicilian formerly-Catholic Jew came to know so much about Christianity. My halakhic status in Judaism is tinok shenishba, a Jew who was raised as a non-Jew. We are cut a lot of slack in terms of following the Law, because of our 'invincible ignorance'. ;o) It is almost like being a little child--there is so much to it that those raised Jewish just take for granted. I'm trying to learn as much as I can as I go along.
In answer to your specific question, I identify spiritually with Orthodox Judaism, but from a practical standpoint I am a Conservative. The nearest Orthodox shul is around 80-90 miles from where I live, and family and business ties preclude relocation at this time. I do hope at some point in the future to formally become Orthodox.
Hmmmm, Steven pulled rank and used bribery and flattery. I don't think you're 'senior' enough to qualify for special treatment. (Just kidding!) Frankly, I've been here for over three years, and Steven is the first case I've heard of where Jim has changed someone's name and allowed them to retain their "member since" date. Its understandable why: with 70,000+ registered members, name change requests would be a nightmare to handle as the system now stands. If John Rob can code an automated way to do it at some point, perhaps it will be more accessible.
Is IMInfallible still available?
Yes, that's much more humble... ;o)
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