Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
So you want to swap reformation horror stories? Both sides get black marks for this. Or are you comparing Catholics to Muslim Fundamentalist?
Of course the big hole in your argument is that there are 2 different words in the original Greek. You can't get around it. And spare us the "Matthew was not written in Greek" baloney, unless you can produce the Aramaic manuscripts from that time.
Also a very interesting observation coming from you. I know you have no use for me however, are you acknowledging Havoc disparages against Catholics?
I really wonder where she got this bad attitude, my, my, I would have thought she'd have been more appreciative then she was, wouldn't you?
Like I said, all I get is fluff.
It reminds me of an international missions conference I went to in Urbana.
Here's a big (10, maybe 13 thousand people) conference (mostly evangelical Protestants) held every three years on a college campus during winter break. It's a wonderful time of prayer and fellowship, and a great recruiting ground for Christs warriors while they are still deciding what to do with their lives.
The odd thing was... every morning before the sun came up, as we trudged through the snow for our 10min walk to the dome... there was this guy standing there trying to evangelize every one of us!
His literature stated very clearly that unless you were baptised into their church, you were damned to Hell. Catholic, Protestant, Evangelical Bible-Believing Charismatic Pentacostal whatever Church - didn't matter. They were all wrong.
He was dedicated though. It was quite cold, but he was there every morning and every evening for the entire week.
I'll join you in that prayer, thanks (she says thanks too). But as a good fundamental independant Baptist, she doesn't believe in divorce.
Pray a little harder.
Convincing anyone that Peter was more then a chip of rock is only a small part of your problem, you still have to connect him to the Catholic church and Rome, so you had best get busy.:-)
What would you have me say, that you are fine to do what you wish? You have that freedom and I defend it. I will not tell you that you're right. I am my brother's keeper. And if my brother is in the wrong, I will say so. I must proclaim the truth. If that offends you, then you have two choices, either don't listen to me, or get on the side of the truth. Because as long as I have breath in me, truth about the Lord will pour from every fiber of my being. If I die tomorrow, I hope I don't die before praying once again that the Lord open your eyes and show you his truth. I'm confident in where I'm going. Would that you all could be.
I don't want any of you to hate Catholicism. I want you to Love and obey God with every thing that is in you. I want you to know the power of God, the authority in his Holy name and the truth of His ways. One cannot, it seems, appreciate truth without having known great lies. One cannot appreciate true justice without having experienced deep injustice. One seems not to appreciate mercy unless one has been without it. One cannot appreciate goodness unless one has been without it. None is more grateful for a scrap of bread than one who's not eaten in days or weeks. It is sad that people have to reach the bottom, to see God for all he is. I've been there. There's nothing there you want. Money is worthless, things are vanity, appearances are vain, yet having nothing but God, one can be the richest person on earth.
You honor the outward "appearances" and neglect the fact that they are constructs of unproven claim that look nothing like the Bible - nothing. You don't question any of the things you should and reject the things you should cling to. You miss the understanding because you are ruled by reason rather than the spirit of the Lord. Catholicism is a riddle. The rich find status in it and the poor find mystery. But neither find the truth - for catholicism has missed the truth in pursuit of glory for the higher ups. Those of today have motives I could not guess at; but, even the best of motives doesnt' change the fact that they repeat and perpetuate fraud in the name of tradition rather then shuck it off and prefer the word of God. Doing the latter would be costly - too costly for any but those who understand the good in doing so. All the good works that Catholicism does cannot save it or you.
You want truth, that's truth. I tell you the same as I tell anyone caught in the middle of something they have accepted and clung to. Trust in God and God only. Put your faith in Him. And obey the scripture. Don't rely on your reason because it got you there to begin with. There is no shame in finding yourself wrong - there is only shame in finding yourself wrong and not fixing it.
You could change and never tell me or anyone else. It makes no difference. So long as you and God know, that makes all the difference. I don't work for a denomination or point anyone to any specific denomination. My work is for the Lord, not a label. The body of Christ is the Church. And if you aren't willing to find it and grow, then you'll never take God at his word. It takes desire and action and faith.
I don't know what else to say, Pegleg. You want my heart, you got it. I'm a servant of God and I don't care what anyone thinks of it. If God's word offends, then you're on the wrong side. People need to get that straight too. I don't have an agenda to sell you Peg. But if you could see it from my chair. It sells itself. The Lord is good to me. And serving him is a joy. I wish everyone could know the same as I do. I don't carry the weight of the world, I sleep well, I eat well, I live well because the Lord has provided for me all that I need. I appreciate what I have and I thank him for it. And if I don't shut up I'll be talking all night on this. You gave me a sentence, I give you a book. The question is big and so too must the answer be.
No, that was your conclusion. I can see he believes in what he posts as fervently as you believe what you post. But your statements about Protestant founders and doctrine are as destructive and divisive as any I've read about your leaders and doctrine.(Not just you, most of the others also.) You (plural) claim to want "unity", but only on your terms. Going back to the original article that caused all this. Is it any wonder that the Baptists ended the talks with the Catholics?
John 6, while a very good place to start in the refutation of your Zwinglian heresy of a symbolic Eucharist, is not the end all be all of Scriptural evidence. There are other issues such as, how does John 6 relate to the Last Supper narratives in the Synoptic Gospels? How does the Last Supper relate to Calvary? How does the Last Supper relate to the Passover in Exodus and the sacrifice of bread and wine offered by Melchizedek in Genesis? How does all of that relate to the heavenly liturgy described in the book of Revelation? How does all of that NOT support a symbolic or figurative Eucharist?
If you are truly interested in the answers to those questions(which I highly doubt), then you can consider these Real Audio files:
Eucharist(Pt.I)
Eucharist(Pt.II)
Eucharist(Pt.III)
Transcript of lecture
Beyond that, I have neither the time nor the energy to waste in engaging in a discussion with you for you have given me a new appreciation of Jesus's admonition in Matthew 7:6.
His Flesh is true food and His Blood is true drink
Pray for the 263rd Successor of St. Peter, John Paul II
Gladly (but we never show them to Protestants :-))
I don't need to try and convince you that the original text was in Aramaic - that's irrelevant. But everyone agrees that Christ certainly said it in Aramaic.
Oh but if we could only know what He said in Aramaic we could solve this puzzle (whoa is me).
But wait! We DO know what he said in Aramaic because we know that Peter's name (in Aramaic) was Cephas (kay-fas), which means - you guessed it - "foundation stone".
So why the apparent confusion between Petra and Petros? Pretty simple actually - One is the feminine form of the noun and can be used for an inanimate object, but never for a masculine name - the other is the masculine form an can be used, even if it also implies a different size rock to some.
Read Daniel. Christ hasn't fulfilled the prophesies regrding the overthrow of the fourth nation and the building of his church in it's place unless the Church is built in Rome. The apostles knew this and it shows why Rome was the focus of evangelism from the earliest days of the church (did you know that Rome was the only church that Paul wrote to when he had never been there? - just an aside).
You see, I knew you couldn't keep it up for very long. I just knew it. Perhaps I should write a book. You are reminding me of one of the Disciples. None was snatched from his hand; but, one...
We have irreconcilable differences so I guess we better stop listening to each other huh? :-)
Please point me to a web site that charges a Protestant Church with sending out their Bible students to kill all Catholics, and, Oh yes, the men who trained and sent them out were their ministers.
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