The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
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[JHavard]

One of the leaders of this group was Francesco Lismanini, noted above, who openly embraced Protestantism during his stay in Geneva, and Zürich. Their aim was to reform the Church without affecting its orthodoxy. Members of this society recommended reading and discussing the Gospels and attacked the Church's tenets that did not have scriptural justification, such as the mystery of the Trinity, one of the antitrinitarian doctrines of Michael Servetus, and the idolatry and worship of saints.

The synod convened in Piotrków in 1552 ordered all Roman Catholics to submit to a test of orthodoxy of their faith designed by Stanislaus Hosius, then Bishop of Warmia. Pope Paul IV sent his Nuncio Aloysius Lippomani who suggested the most sanguinary methods to eradicate heresy, arguing that violence was justified and recommended seizure of the leaders and their execution.

[First Conservative]

Re your #390 and #393.

Poor 'ol "post." Still grasping at straws. In the hope that you may still have some "grey matter" left that has not turned to RCC concrete, why don't you go to the website to which you referred me - and READ it! (Sorry, I forgot Soothing Dave doesn't like "shouting." LOL)

http://users.aol.com/libcfl/libc.htm

Lurkers seeking TRUTH should also visit this site.

[JHavard]

Stanislaus Hosius (1504-1579), cardinal since 1561, was the single individual who contributed most to the defeat of the Reformation. Hosius proposed exile of all priests embracing Reformation ideas and expulsion of all Protestant ministers, Polish and foreign. He held a special grudge against the Antitrinitarians and the Bohemian Brethren whom he considered the most dangerous.

Hosius conceived of the idea of bringing in the Jesuits. At his request the first group arrived in 1564 and was settled and endowed in Braunsberg. Slowly the Order was spread to all Poland, endowed with churches, hospitals and schools. Its goal was to restore Papal supremacy regardless of Polish national interests, individual human rights, and moral principles. He, with other Jesuits, argued that the Warsaw Statutes of 1573, were a "criminal conspiracy against God" and should be abolished by the King. He openly recommended to King Henri de Valois to retract his oath maintaining that an oath given to "heretics" may be broken even without an absolution. He even commissioned the King's confessor, William Ruzeus to explain to the King his "duty" to break the oath. Papal Nuncio Gratiani, advised the King to crush religious and political liberties, offer offices only to Catholics and to engage in a war with Muscovy to keep the nation from religious discussions and intellectual pursuits.

[JHavard]

Beginning with the reign of Stefan Batory (1575-1586), the clergy and Jesuits launched a continuous and methodical campaign against Protestants and the law of the pax dissidentium that lasted until the complete success of the Counter Reformation in the middle of the XVIIth century. Several methods were used by Jesuits to achieve their goals.

The most primitive was to use brutal physical force. The Jesuits and Hosius openly instigated mobs, school pupils and university students to organize pogroms, attacks, desecrations of burial grounds, and murder against Protestants. King Batory, influenced by Jesuits, was involved in one case of expulsion of the rector of the Socinian school at Chmielnik, Christian Francken. He also imprisoned Alexis Radecki, a Socinian printer.

[JHavard]

Jesuits strived to gain control over education. They achieved it by the end of the reign of King Zygmunt August III (1587-1632). They used schools as a training ground for their puppets who were then promoted to political and civil offices, to the Sejm and to the courts. By control of education Jesuits were able to indoctrinate youth with hatred towards Protestants. The students who organized the pogroms defended themselves on the ground that it was their duty to destroy the Protestants just as the clergy had taught them.

Jesuits destroyed the concepts of law and individual rights replacing them by prejudice and corruption. The King allowed himself and the country to be controlled by Jesuits with total disregard for national interests. He achieved more by corruption than by open persecution. Abolishment of the laws was instituted methodically, step by step. It began with the Sejm of 1588 which allowed action to be brought by the Catholic Church for recovery of its former property thus abrogating the law of 1556 granting the nobles freedom of worship.

[D-fendr]

" I know the word and the Word speaks for itself."

Hidden in plain sight in this statement is a lack of discernment and distinction that I am attempting to bring to your conscious awareness…

because I think if you can see it, it can result in great benefit to you and others.

You have a great deal of talent, ambition and ability, I wish you true success and happiness, as well as increased usefulness to others.

[JHavard]

Another method of exterminating Protestants was open impunity of all aggression against them. To the Jesuits every act of persecution and depravity committed against a Protestant was proof of piety. In 1611 a young Italian named Franco, who proclaimed that the Catholic Eucharist was nothing but idolatry, was condemned to death in Wilno and hastily executed in the courtyard of the castle. In Bielsk which belonged to the Queen Constantia, Archduchess of Austria, John Tyszkiewicz, a Socinian was executed on November 16, 1611, by her order for refusing to swear in the name of the Trinity. These examples clearly illustrate the power exerted by the clergy and breakdown of the moral sensitivities of Poles.

I wonder why there are no records of the statements made by Stanislaus Hosius the First Conservative mentioned, you don't think their could be any foul play do you?

Check this web site out, there is plenty more.

[RnMomof7]

You are on!

[pegleg]

Stanislaus Hosius (1504-1579), cardinal since 1561, was the single individual who contributed most to the defeat of the Reformation.

Sounds like he did his job well. Still doesn't prove he wrote this alleged letter.

[pegleg]

In the hope that you may still have some "grey matter" left that has not turned to RCC concrete, why don't you go to the website to which you referred me - and READ it!

I did. Like I said, your just to darn gullible.

[RnMomof7]

Hi, Mom, I hope i didn't use your name in vain when I said in an earlier post that an alleged speculation of Eusebius in the third century was in line with what you would believe It seems that he said that the reason that satan tempted Eve first was that she was the smarter of the two and therefore was capable of doing more damage to mankind than adam could . (0_0).

Dag,you better be careful or I will put you on the Protestant Bump list and the Catholics will think you defected! BTW the sin of Eden belongs solo to Adam...I am smart enough to know that *grin*

[RobbyS]

And Edmund Campion, a Jesuit, was drawn and quartered for treason against Elizabeth I of England. He was among 300 Catholics. executed by the Queen's Secret service. Do you know that according to Blackstone, any Catholic priest who in 1760. publicly said mass was subject to life imprisionment?

[Havoc]

Hidden in plain sight in this statement is a lack of discernment and distinction that I am attempting to bring to your conscious awareness…

Hidden in plain sight. There is nothing hidden - all is obvious and all for a reason. The Lord is the Word and the word is Him. If you know Him and have Him in you, then the word is in you and the Word speaks to you. This is the understanding that many fail to grasp. It is not hidden. It is there for the asking. You speak down and then up. You don't realize you could be speaking to yourself and of yourself. I have nothing that anyone else here cannot have. But to reach that point, you must trust and obey God and His word rather than the words of men. And it didn't happen overnight. I've learned and grown. I've had my ups and downs as anyone. I've seen both sides of things. I know the difference between the world of man and the world of God.

There are things that many have no clue about that go on because they can't see past the end of there noses and have no concept that there really is a spiritual world. The natural man is clueless to the supernatural. Man has the spiritual world so backward as to make a movie like Stigmata and try to sell the idea that God does evil to people in order to 'bless' them. This is spiritual ignorance and blasphemy.

Your problem D, is what you think you know. Carnal wisdom is what the Pharisees tried to apply to the Lord. Many would say he made fools of them. No, he let them show they already were clueless. And their cluelessness is what cost them their jobs. They screwed it all up. And God came in and cleaned it up. The Lord became the chief priest and made all His sheep "kings and priests" beneath him. But, the carnal man cannot abide this. Power is man's ultimate aphrodisiac. And men have been trying to usurp the things of God for ages. It's an uphill battle that's already been decided. The best one can hope for is a deceptive fraud. And that's what we see everywhere today - men who've replaced scripture with their own designs and lull people into following them. Some have been at it for hundreds of years, some over a century. None of it will stand. And the great judgements are about to begin.

Wake up D.

[IMRight]

You think that's nasty? Try reading what Luther had to say about the anabaptists (or you could read Calvin, or just about any of the Reformers).

Those were not particularly nice times in the body (kinda makes our threads look tame hmm?) but if you look at it like a nasty divorce where each side marginalizes the concerns of the other then makes up lies to make sure that the children hate the other parent... well... it kinda makes sense.

[JHavard]

And Edmund Campion, a Jesuit, was drawn and quartered for treason against Elizabeth I of England. He was among 300 Catholics. executed by the Queen's Secret service. Do you know that according to Blackstone, any Catholic priest who in 1760. publicly said mass was subject to life imprisionment?

Hummm, I wonder why?

[OLD REGGIE]

That voucher system'll mess things up. It involves giving government money to private schools, and government regulation will follow. A system of tax credits would avoid that problem.
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I'm not in total disagreement with you; but, what are you going to do with the people who pay no taxes? We certainly can't put $'s in their hands, we can't put coupons which can be sold for cash money in their hands. In one way or another a government bureaucracy will become involved.

[D-fendr]

You speak for Havoc, not God.

This is the distinction as clearly as it can be stated. Whether it becomes known to you is yet to be determined. May God bless your efforts; I wish you well.

[IMRight]

The site you posted refers to your church as "Calvinistic". Would that be Calvinistic in the sense of baptizing babies? You know, of course, that Calvin wanted to execute anabaptists, right?

Or did the Catholics make that up as well (with the help, of course, of the Catholic sympathizing Calvinists - the historical Presbyterians).

[RobbyS]

Hummm, I wonder why? The majority of Englishmen were still Catholic when she assumed the throne, and the only way that her Anglican Church could be imposed on the people was to suppress Catholicism (and incidentally the Puritans) by means fair and foul.

[OLD REGGIE]

Wrong answer. I asked when the first post Apostolic Council was held in your Church.

Can't happen until there is no longer an Apostolic Church.