The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
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[Invincibly Ignorant]

On a different topic. Did you see I scored 100% as an Eastern Orthodox Christian? Are you guys recruiting today?

Where is this test? I wanna take it.

[SoothingDave]

I've always seen "binding and loosing" as follows: What God want's bound will not be bound until His Church does so, and what God want's loosed will not be loosed until His Church does so. The key being that the Church is doing the will of God, and not vice versa.

Exactly. I'm not sure why this is always a source of confusion for NC's. Bassman made a similar point about the tenses in the Greek and I still could not see the difference.

Nc's seem to have the conception that the Catholic Church thinks that it can inflict its will upon God and the power to bind and loose is the way it orders God around. Nothing could be further from the Truth.

The Church has been given the ability to declare things as they are in Heaven. This is not an arbitrary power, it is God binding the Church to the Truth of heaven not the Church binding God to its idea of the Truth.

SD

[al_c]

Don't support any of those people. I've pretty much had it with most politicians these days.

Good for you!

[SoothingDave]

Has anybody else seen this yet?

This test makes its rounds on FR every so often. When I saw it I scored 100% for Catholic or Orthodox. Big surprise, huh? (Honestly, I don't think the test discerns between the two.)

SD

[al_c]

Do you have six weeks where you praise the Lord and never repent as well?

Still having a problem with Lent, Steven? I found some more history info if you're interested. It's from Christianity Today's web site. Here's the link. Or if you'd prefer, I can post the article here.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Good for you!

Most republicans in this state are Rinos. Wayne Allard an exception in the senate (although it still really ticks me off he voted not to have a Clinton trial). Couple of the house reps are good but that's about it.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Still having a problem with Lent, Steven? I found some more history info if you're interested. It's from Christianity Today's web site. Here's the link. Or if you'd prefer, I can post the article here.

Just don't think things like praise and repentance should be on a schedule that's all.

[al_c]

Most republicans in this state are Rinos. Wayne Allard an exception in the senate (although it still really ticks me off he voted not to have a Clinton trial). Couple of the house reps are good but that's about it.

Well, if you ever get tired of all that garbage, come on down here to Texas. We have real Republicans in these parts. I think we're losing the Austin area to liberalism, though. Dang hippies! ;o)

[Pelayo]

This test makes its rounds on FR every so often. When I saw it I scored 100% for Catholic or Orthodox. Big surprise, huh? (Honestly, I don't think the test discerns between the two.)

I think it odd that on my score Hindu was like #7 and Orthodox Jewish #8.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Well, if you ever get tired of all that garbage, come on down here to Texas. We have real Republicans in these parts.

Ya think so? I think people like Kay Bailey and Phil Graham are rinos. I, perhaps, have set the bar too high but I don't think so. I like Ron Paul tho.

[al_c]

Just don't think things like praise and repentance should be on a schedule that's all.

We're always called to praise and repentance, we just direct our focus more on certain things during certain times of the year. Kinda like Christmas. Sure, we should always celebrate the fact that our Lord came to live with us on earth, but we give it a more direct focus during that time of year.

[Havoc]

Certainly, if God intended us to get everything we need from a book, He would have written it while He was here, don't you think? Instead He focused on dealing with people and using other people to convey His message.

That's why he wrote the 10 commandments by his own finger but let Moses handle all the rest, right? The stuff that Moses wrote was just toilet paper, I'm sure. And the israelites respected what was on the stone tablets more than what was written by Moses, right? Wrong on both counts. So where did you think you were going with the "God would have written a book" thing? God did write a Book, directly and through the Spirit. Men have honored neither. It therefore doesn't matter how the communication is made, we are equally responsible for it. But God Made a way to prove or proof what is said or claimed to be from him. You just want to convince everyone they aren't up to that task.. that they aren't really supposed to follow that rule given by the apostles. They aren't supposed to do anything but trust the clergy and shut up. Wow, who does that sound like? ...

[SoothingDave]

Good gay priests may have been afraid to name pedophiles for fear they would be smeared as well. It turns out their fears were justified. It seems to me that after the Vatican’s declaration of war on its gay clergy last weekend that gay priests have a simple duty. They need to come out in large numbers to their parishioners and to the press. They need to dare the Vatican to fire them. They need to stop the defensiveness of the past, stand up for their moral integrity, and expose the rot at the heart of the Church. And lay Catholics need to support them against the hierarchy every inch of the way. How dare the Church impugn innocents while it shelters the guilty? And how can decent American Catholics not rise up against the hierarchy for it?"

I don't care if its 80 per cent of the priests. I don't buy this "good gay priest" charade. There may be some, and it is unfortunate, but there is no doubt that any of the gay priests who have secret lives and boyfriends deserve nothign less than being defrocked.

If Sullivan or his gay Catholic buddy think that the rank and file Catholic is going to come to the defense of their priest to identify himself by, or engage in, sodomy, he is sadly mistaken.

We never here alcoholic priests clamor for affection for their special sin. We dont' here of priests who steal from the collection demanding that their sin be recognized and accepted. Sullivan is an activist. Who is an activist for an "inclination" that must be resisted? Nobody. These people are activists for accepting sodomy as a lifestyle choice for both priests and regular people.

Bring it on.

"I'm gay and the Vatican is picking on me. Boo hoo."

SD

[Wordsmith]

On a different topic. Did you see I scored 100% as an Eastern Orthodox Christian? Are you guys recruiting today?

I've noticed these posts, but have no idea what they're about. Is it some kind of survey?

[al_c]

I think people like Kay Bailey and Phil Graham are rinos. I, perhaps, have set the bar too high but I don't think so. I like Ron Paul tho.

Ya think? I think they've done pretty well upholding conservative values overall. I'm warming up to Ron Paul ... didn't like him much when he first started. Maybe because I was living in liberal Austin at the time? ;o)

[SoothingDave]

Just don't think things like praise and repentance should be on a schedule that's all.

Every day in your Church is like a mini liturgical year. Some of us like to draw it out. To every thing there is a season, remember?

BTW, even during Lent, Sundays are days of celebration, not days of repentence. But there is such a thing as celebration, and then there is CELEBRATION!

SD

[SoothingDave]

That's why he wrote the 10 commandments by his own finger but let Moses handle all the rest, right? The stuff that Moses wrote was just toilet paper, I'm sure. And the israelites respected what was on the stone tablets more than what was written by Moses, right? Wrong on both counts. So where did you think you were going with the "God would have written a book" thing? God did write a Book, directly and through the Spirit. Men have honored neither. It therefore doesn't matter how the communication is made, we are equally responsible for it. But God Made a way to prove or proof what is said or claimed to be from him. You just want to convince everyone they aren't up to that task.. that they aren't really supposed to follow that rule given by the apostles. They aren't supposed to do anything but trust the clergy and shut up. Wow, who does that sound like? ...

I said that Jesus (the second person of the Trinity) did not write a book while he was here (meaning earth, referring to Jesus's Incarnation as a human, an event that took place in time and space.)

What part of that is hard to understand? Jesus didn't write a book while He was here. He didn't. Sorry you don't understand simple words.

SD

[RobbyS]

The Church has been given the ability to declare things as they are in Heaven. This is not an arbitrary power, it is God binding the Church to the Truth of heaven not the Church binding God to its idea of the Truth. And this is the basis of the sacramental system : the sacraments draw their power from the essential Gospel message. For instance, as the E.C. says, the doctrine of the Eucharist is corollary to the doctrine of the Holy Trinity.

[JohnnyM]

I think where we disagree is the definition of the Church.

JM

[Pelayo]

But God Made a way to prove or proof what is said or claimed to be from him. You just want to convince everyone they aren't up to that task.. that they aren't really supposed to follow that rule given by the apostles. They aren't supposed to do anything but trust the clergy and shut up.

You mean like God stated it, "directly and through the Spirit," in that Book?