The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
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[Elsie]

Reggie's right. This is ugly and slanderous and defamatory against Unitarians. It was better left unposted.

But....... is it truthful?

[SoothingDave]

But....... is it truthful?

No attempt to prove its veracity was made. Absent evidence that Unitarians are out to destroy Christianity and civilization as we know it, it is slanderous and not conducive to this conversation.

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

Let's not start counting Superbowls now. Dave and I would both beat ya.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh. Promise you won't tell SD, some of my favorite teams of all times were the old Steelers. The big mouth, big headed, cheese eaters were one of my favorite teams to "hate".

Hate list: (Worst first)

New York "Football" Giants.

Cowboys

Packers

Jets (The exception was when they beat the Colts. I have always been an AFL/AFC fan.)


Most favorite:

Pats (In spite of their "colorful history". I was an original season ticket holder. "Parochial")

The old Oakland Raiders

The old Pittsburgh Steelers.

Any AFC team in the Super Bowl.

[SoothingDave]

What about when the Old Oakland Raiders played the Old Pittsburgh Steelers?

SD

[ksen]

Wordsmith: Do you believe that the Church ever was one institution? Meaning, of course, during the Apostolic era? It seems to me to be a crucial difference whether the Church was never a discernable institution, and whether it was briefly a discernable institution that then vanished.

OLD REGGIE: This is a simple question, difficult to answer. I certainly can't answer it in an authoritative manner. I believe the original Church was a loosely knit group of cooperating Churches. I see no evidence in the beginning of a clearly defined "governing" body, yet they were able to get together and arrive at "group" decisions simply because they were still small and they were driven to do it this way.

Obviously, as this Church grew, spread out to new territory, and became more complex this type of informal "management" would not have been sufficient.

One thing I am certain of: There is no evidence in Scripture or the early Church of a Dictator (Pope). This, certainly, was a later development and the blanks were filled in retroactively.

I wonder if the pattern of events that dealt with the Tower of Babel apply to this situation. What I mean is that God told all of Mankind to go out and replenish the earth. They disobeyed and attempted to stay together in one organizational structure. God moved in and scattered them.

We come now to the founding of the Church. Jesus tells the Disciples that they will bring the Gospel to Jerusalem, Judaea, Samaria and the uttermost part of the earth. The Disciples end up concentrating in Jerusalem, in one organizational structure. God sent persecution and caused the Christians to scatter throughout the world. What, by all rights should have been the Mother Church, Jerusalem, was basically destroyed.

Just a thought.

-ksen

[OLD REGGIE]

Its already been proven. How many cups did the Bruins win with Ray Borque?

I don't know. I don't follow hockey. I imagine it is 0? Ok I know it is 0

The owner of the Bruins, Jeremy Jacobs, is in business to sell condiments, not build a Stanley Cup team. He won't even pay union wage to the players.

[ksen]

1979. World Series and the 4th Super Bowl trophy. City of Champions. Pittsburgh, PA.

What, no Cup that year? ;^)

As an aside, I agree with you Dave that the Cup is THE most prestigious prize in sports, bar none.

-ksen

[OLD REGGIE]

Some years ago my brother in law died while his mother, a devout Catholic, was still living. My brother in law was a "fallen" Catholic and had allowed my sister to raise the children as Protestants. Nobody had ever told his mother. When he died, his brothers and sisters told my sister it would "kill" his mother if he wasn't buried from a Catholic Church.

My sister compromised by having the funeral in the local Episcopal Church. It fooled his mother and it fooled me. Except for the use of the English language, it reminded me of the Mass I remembered.

I have no idea what particular brand of "Episcopal" that Church was but it sure could fool old Catholics.

[al_c]

Blasphemy! The Cup is the Supreme Trophy. No championship on earth is as difficult or as demanding in body and spirit to be captured. None.

Ahem. The World Cup is far beyond the reach of Sir Stanley. Sorry.

Ugliest darn trophy in the history of sports, though.

[SoothingDave]

What, no Cup that year?

No, sadly that was in the dark period before the Magnificent One came. It was the year that prompted the Pens to get on board, civic wise, and suit up in Black and Gold. They wore blue and white previously, but in the fever of the times, decided to do the logical thing.

I can't think of another city whose professional teams all wear the same colors.

SD

[ksen]

No attempt to prove its veracity was made. Absent evidence that Unitarians are out to destroy Christianity and civilization as we know it, it is slanderous and not conducive to this conversation.

Well, the country has basically gone to pot since the Unitarians took over Harvard and the rest of those schools.

-ksen

[Elsie]

Surely you jest. The univerally understood message of the Abraham and Isaac tale you cite is that God does NOT desire human sacrifice.

Did you read the rest of the story? I don't want to ruin the ending for you.

SD

---

Genesis 22

 

 1.  Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, "Abraham!"   "Here I am," he replied.
 2.  Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."
 3.  Early the next morning Abraham got up and saddled his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about.
 4.  On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance.
 5.  He said to his servants, "Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you."
 6.  Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together,
 7.  Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, "Father?"   "Yes, my son?" Abraham replied.   "The fire and wood are here," Isaac said, "but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?"
 8.  Abraham answered, "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." And the two of them went on together.
 9.  When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 
 10.  Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son.
 11.  But the angel of the LORD called out to him from heaven, "Abraham! Abraham!"   "Here I am," he replied.
 12.  "Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."
 13.  Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son.
 14.  So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, "On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided."
 15.  The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time
 16.  and said, "I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son,
 17.  I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies,
 18.  and through your offspring  all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."

---

Then why did God TELL Abraham to DO IT?

---

Numbers 14

11.  The LORD said to Moses, "How long will these people treat me with contempt? How long will they refuse to believe in me, in spite of all the miraculous signs I have performed among them?
 12.  I will strike them down with a plague and destroy them, but I will make you into a nation greater and stronger than they."
 13.  Moses said to the LORD, "Then the Egyptians will hear about it! By your power you brought these people up from among them.
 14.  And they will tell the inhabitants of this land about it. They have already heard that you, O LORD, are with these people and that you, O LORD, have been seen face to face, that your cloud stays over them, and that you go before them in a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night.
 15.  If you put these people to death all at one time, the nations who have heard this report about you will say,
 16.  `The LORD was not able to bring these people into the land he promised them on oath; so he slaughtered them in the desert.'
 17.  "Now may the Lord's strength be displayed, just as you have declared:
 18.  `The LORD is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation.'
 19.  In accordance with your great love, forgive the sin of these people, just as you have pardoned them from the time they left Egypt until now."
 20.  The LORD replied, "I have forgiven them, as you asked.

(Another test??)

---

Mightly flexible..... for a GOD that changes not..........

NIV 1 Samuel 15:29
 29.  He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind."

NIV Malachi 3:6
 6.  "I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.

NIV Numbers 23:19
 19.  God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

[ksen]

I do have a grudging respect for Lemieux, especially after making the comeback after his sickness and all. However, I don't think I can ever forgive the Pens for the hit that basically ended the career of Cam Neely (who was that, Samuelsson or Jagr?).

Does anyone know if the part of the Lord's prayer that deals with forgiving those that trespass against us applies to organizations as well as individuals? ;^)

-ksen

[al_c]

Let's not start counting Superbowls now. Dave and I would both beat ya.

Heck, even the Cowboys could beat 'em in that one! ;o)

[SoothingDave]

Ahem. The World Cup is far beyond the reach of Sir Stanley. Sorry.

Pish and tush! Running around in futility may be exhausting, but it is not demanding or greuling. They don't do it every other day for two months, they don't play the same team over and over to develop a good hatred, and they aren't even allowed to hit each other.

Have you gone mad? Fa foo!

SD

[al_c]

Aw! Cowboys only second worst? I'm disappointed, Reg! ;o)

[SoothingDave]

I do have a grudging respect for Lemieux, especially after making the comeback after his sickness and all. However, I don't think I can ever forgive the Pens for the hit that basically ended the career of Cam Neely (who was that, Samuelsson or Jagr?).

Mr Neely learned the hard way to keep his head up. There was nothing untoward about the hit. It is unfortunate, but these things happen.

It was Ulfie Samuelsson who delivered the blow. Jagr never really hit anybody except once in a blue moon if he got really PO'd. Samuelsson was part of the Trade, whereby the Whalers gave up the franchise and enabled the Pens to win their Cups. Ron Francis and Ulf Samuelsson and Grant Jennings for Zarley Zalapski (great name, but no Francis or Ulf)

The GM of Hartford of course later rejoined the Penguins staff.

SD

[Joyful Wisdom]

Actually I jump in infrequently because I am usually so many posts behind (first time I've caught up in three weeks: Yipee). Also, I feel I learn a lot just by following the discussions and only comment if I am confused. But that aside.

I was re-iterating the need to find another word than papist because it seems made to inflame not provoke discussion. The rest of my post was parts that I found contradictory in I66s posts. He said it was the heirarchry that was corrupt and was not against individual catholics, but then went on to say how followers of false gospels (ie Catholics) were basically tools of the devil.

I did not respond to Saras post because I feel others had already respoinded.

I usually do not respond to either SDs, RobbyS or Paylo because when they make bizarre or contridictory statements someone else (you) call him on it right away and I don't read about it till a week has passed.

[SoothingDave]

Heck, even the Cowboys could beat 'em in that one

Cowboys versus Steelers. Still two for us and one for you, ain't it?

SD

[al_c]

Pish and tush! Running around in futility may be exhausting, but it is not demanding or greuling. They don't do it every other day for two months, they don't play the same team over and over to develop a good hatred, and they aren't even allowed to hit each other.

NHL, as wonderful as it is, may have players from around the globe, but the game is played on only one continent. World Cup is worldwide. And, yes, they do sometimes play every other day during qualifying rounds; and there are some very deep-seeded rivalries in virtually every league around the globe. Take Liverpool and Manchester United, for example. Or a bit closer to home ... US and Mexico. The Mexico team has a track record of firing coaches that lose to the US team. I think one has even been shot to death. Must've been a heretic. ;o)