The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
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[D-fendr]

Nah, on business, lurking and scrolling fastly past mostly.

Thanks though and best wishes to you both…

[SoothingDave]

Does homosexuality render procreation impossible? Then it is intrinsically evil.

Does abstinence render procreation impossible? Are you implying that the entire Priesthood is intrinsically evil?

There you go again. Again to the Catechism paragraph you cited.

"...In contrast, "every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" is intrinsically evil

Abstinance is not an action. It is the avoidance of an action. Therefore, your argument, as such, falls flat. Really, Reggie. Try reading it as other than a source of loopholes and "gotchas."

SD

[SoothingDave]

Does homosexuality render procreation impossible? Then it is intrinsically evil.

Does abstinence render procreation impossible? Are you implying that the entire Priesthood is intrinsically evil?

There you go again. Again to the Catechism paragraph you cited.

"...In contrast, "every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" is intrinsically evil

Abstinance is not an action. It is the avoidance of an action. Therefore, your argument, as such, falls flat. Really, Reggie. Try reading it as other than a source of loopholes and "gotchas."

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

BTW, you can also read the "birth control" section above to call evil any act which is "renders procreation impossible." This neatly wraps us all manners of sexual sins as intrinsically evil.

You forget, you chewed on your bone of "intrinsically evil". I ignored it the first time but you, little terrier, were sure you had a "gotcha" and wouldn't give up. Now you blithely ignore that your "gotcha" was really an "oops". Do you also consider the "Act of Celibacy" as "intrinsically evil"?

[D-fendr]

"Chastity means the successful integration of sexuality within the person and thus the inner unity of man in his bodily and spiritual being. "

I think that is very well put. Thanks for posting it along with the rest; well done.

[SoothingDave]

Oh my God, Robby owns a gun!!!

Who here doesn't? I've even got a carry permit.

SD

[RobbyS]

Only thing I have handy says I was wrong about the Swedes(divorce lawyers must work cheap). In 1996, Belarus had the highest divorce rate (68% of marriages)among 47 selected countries. USA is only 49%(12th) Belgium is 56%,(7th) but Catholic influence in that country is vanishing quickly.They are almost as demoralized as the former communists states. Austria is 38%. Poland is 19%, and Italy is 12%. Spain is 17%.

[SoothingDave]

Do you also consider the "Act of Celibacy" as "intrinsically evil"?

As mentioned above, celibacy is not an "act." Unless you consider resisting sin to be an "act."

If you want to get silly, every act that is not marital relations is a sin then. When I pray, give alms, wipe my baby's butt, the act "renders procreation impossible." I better get to confession. Uh oh, the confession is also an act which renders procreation impossible. So is typing this. And responding to your nonsense.

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

Are you ready to apologize for your gross mischaracterization?

Lord have mercy on my soul. SD is asking for an apology for a (Dave defined) "gross mischaracterization"!!!!!!

Dave, is it possible for you to get a blanket forgiveness for all your mischaracterizations? Ask for help. Were here to help you. Just ask.

[Havoc]

Men don't fly, airplanes do.

Really, I haven't seen too many airplanes take off down the runway to go find a bird to excersize with in my entire life. Please explain this feat. I'm sure the military in this country would love to be briefed on such an amazing discovery as an airplane that flys autonomously..

[eastsider]

I meant to ask you when you were distinguishing Anglican confessions -- where does the Oxford Movement fit into the distinctions?

[SoothingDave]

Lord have mercy on my soul. SD is asking for an apology for a (Dave defined) "gross mischaracterization"!!!!!!

Crazy isn't it? I think that when people read things in the worst possible light, and later admit that they don't understand the terminology or concepts they were reading, that they should apologize for assuming the worst of something they don't understand. I'm funny that way.

Dave, is it possible for you to get a blanket forgiveness for all your mischaracterizations? Ask for help. Were here to help you. Just ask.

Forgiveness from whom?

When I get out of line, I apologize. If you have something in mind, bring it on.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Really, I haven't seen too many airplanes take off down the runway to go find a bird to excersize with in my entire life. Please explain this feat. I'm sure the military in this country would love to be briefed on such an amazing discovery as an airplane that flys autonomously..

There are planes that fly without men. There are no men who fly without planes. Ponder that.

(Helicopters, rockets, balloons, etc. excepted)

SD

[trad_anglican]

Unless you consider resisting sin to be an "act."

No, it's a work and therefore has no bearing on your salvation. Come on Dave, get with the program.

.22 rifle UNREGISTERED

[eastsider]

Oh my God, Robby owns a gun!!!

Who here doesn't? I've even got a carry permit.

I'll take matches, rope and kindling any day.

[Havoc]

If only they had taken seriously their charge and written down everything Our Lord said and did.

It wasn't necessary for them to write down everything he said and did. And they took their charge quite seriously. The unfortunate thing is many people don't take what they did or said seriously and try to make their deeds seem not to be enough. Many give heresay as much or more credibility than what they said. And it hasn't stopped certain people from forging what they'd rather was said into the lexicon. No, we were given what we needed. If there'd been more, it would have just given greater need for forgery to produce the means by which some people would seek their ends. Truth isn't what matters to some, nor the volume of it. expediency to their particular comforts is the rule. Don't play games with regard to the apostles - you do them a dis-service and you are speaking out your aft end in doing so. Tell me one thing that cannot be determined from scripture that is necessary for your attaining heaven. One thing.

[OLD REGGIE]

Hi Reggie. Do you think that the Pre-Constantinian Church was the same Church as the Post-Constantinian Church, despite the "vast differences? In other words, I'm vastly different from who I was as a child, but am the same person. I know this is beyond the scope of the conversation you've been having, and I promise not to bring up Latin :), but the way you worded this made me think of the question. God Bless.

In the very simplest terms; the "pre" Church was poor, weak, and victimized. The "post" Church group which accomodated itself to the "perks" of wealth and power became the RCC. Now, of course, you are aware this is my opinion. I am not stating it as a fact, although I know I am right. :)

[SoothingDave]

22 rifle UNREGISTERED

Unregistered until he posted on a public forum. A good old varmint rifle. The lst place I lived in was a duplex by itself with a lot of woods behind it. The neighbor would shoot raccoons and groundhogs whenever he saw 'em. Groundhogs are so stupid they will stand up on their hind legs and look around if you whistle at 'em.

SD