Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Do you agree that RC clergy who practice instrinsically evil and sinful acts, should remain clergy? Do you believe their intrincally evil sinfulness should be protected by the heirarchy within the RCC?
I certainly don't , for Protestants, or any other denomination. Neither did St. Paul setting a high standard for pastors and overseers in 1 Timothy 3, as well as other places. Would you agree?
No coffee this morning Steve? You seem a little on edge. Maybe Mack would give you a back rub and "grease you up"?In light of OR's aversion to Latin, maybe he'd prefer a little "Greecing" today.
How about let's look at what was said:
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, 141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." 142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition. 2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
Now, short of dividing the above letters into columns and rows and playing word search where diagonal, bacward, horizontal and vertical scoring is possible - Would you mind pointing out where the phrase "intrinsically Evil" appears - anywhere in the above?
One finds not the exact phrase, but the idea. What would you call something that is "grave depravity," "intrinsically disorderd," "contrary to the natural law," that under "no circumstances can be approved of"?
Well? Do me one better. Name me something that is a violation of the natural law that is NOT evil.
Why would you read this, other than having a black heart where the Catholic Church is concerned, and believe this is an APPROVAL of such behavior or lifestyles surrounding it? Do you think that since the Catechism doesn't explicitly forbid adulterous "lifestyles" that it would approve of one surrounding himself in the trappings of a fornication "lifestyle" as long as he didn't actually fornicate? Do you?
Secondly, chastity: 1. Virginity 2. Virtuousness 3. Celibacy. Right out of the dictionary. So, please honor us with the official Catholic version of the word for our Catholic dictionary of terms as it appears your redefinition of the language has bearing on what you think you're saying.
I will in time expose for you the full meaning. But I believe you have stumbled upon an answer for yourself.
The Church calls all homosexuals to a life of chastity, which you have provided a definition of which includes the idea of "virtuousness."
I would hope that your idea of "virtuousness" does not include the idea of living a homosexual "lifestyle," while avoiding the actual acts. Now why do you think the Catholic call to virtuousness is any different from your own idea?
SD
When someone says, We love her warts and all---what does that mean to you?
I guess you will just have to shun me, cuz yule get no retraction nor apology.
So are you telling me that it's evil for Rome to move pedophile priest from location to location, knowing they are peodphiles and are going to a new area with "fresh victims to prey on"? Is that evil or isn't it?
We live in a world in which religious beliefs are not simply personal, but continually threaten to spill over to public policy and law. The Vatican has repeatedly urged the U.S. Catholic hierarchy to lead the fight against gay rights legislation, same-sex marriage, and even safe sex education. The Christian Coalition and similar groups do the same. For queers to criticize them - and to work against them - is not "Catholic bashing" but a model of self- respect and political organizing. When Tony Kushner criticizes the Pope and the American Bishops for their virulently homophobic beliefs -- particularly the dogma that homosexual acts are "intrinsically evil" and that homosexuality is an "objective disorder" or as a Vatican document stated in 1986 referring to AIDS that "homosexuality may seriously threaten the lives and well-being of a large number of people" - is he Catholic bashing or simply exerting his right to define his own life and sense of self.Looks like the gay community thinks that the RCC thinks their activities are "evil". You think maybe Dave got to them too?
Yeah, its Official, but under protest.:) Da, Al!
As member of "Russian" (rushin'?) parish, am thinkink is corrupt judges that ignore poor Russians.
I should get prize. I thought about posting.
Paul (LOL)
When someone says, We love her warts and all---what does that mean to you?
I guess you will just have to shun me, cuz yule get no retraction nor apology.
So are you telling me that it's evil for Rome to move pedophile priest from location to location, knowing they are peodphiles and are going to a new area with "fresh victims to prey on"? Is that evil or isn't it?
Ya see dave, if you are not against that evil, then you are for it, which means that you love it instead of hating it---no middle ground there.
I certainly don't , for Protestants, or any other denomination. Neither did St. Paul setting a high standard for pastors and overseers in 1 Timothy 3, as well as other places. Would you agree?
How many people are there in this "perfect clergy" of yours? Not very many, I might reckon. Or are you only speaking of certain intrinsically evil and sinful acts?
SD
See post #30879
BigMack
LOL
Do you think one box will do the trick? :-)
How many f***ing times do I have to tell you this?
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
I AM AGAINST THE ACTIONS THE LEADERS of THE CHURCH DID IN HANDLING THESE PEDOPHILES!
That should hold you for a while.
SD
Thats nothing look at this:
Dave: How many f***ing times do I have to tell you this?
Now that was a fruit if I ever saw one.
BigMack
See 30923. Asked and answered. I'm sorry your thesarus is broken. I'm sorry you are so stuck on the word "Evil" that you can't see that the acts are denounced much more strongly than this four letter word.
I repeat my challenge. Show me anything that violates natural law which is not evil.
Tick tock.
SD
That or an enima with a 3/4" garden hose will do. :)
BigMack
Well, I did fail to use the four letter word "evil." So maybe I better do it again.
Hey Isaih:
IT WAS EVIL
IT WAS EVIL
IT WAS EVIL
IT WAS EVIL
IT WAS EVIL
IT WAS EVIL
IT WAS EVIL
IT WAS EVIL
IT WAS EVIL
IT WAS EVIL
IT WAS EVIL
IT WAS EVIL
IT WAS EVIL
IT WAS EVIL
IT WAS EVIL
IT WAS EVIL
IT WAS EVIL
IT WAS EVIL
IT WAS EVIL
SD
We love the Church, warts and all.We're particularly fond of barbeques. Can we have you for dinner? : )
How many people are there in this "perfect clergy" of yours?
Notice dave, please pay special attention! The context was of those who practice homosexuality, pedophilia and other ongoing, habitual, continuous practice of sin without benefit of true repentance.
Ya see, there you go trying to poo poo away pedophile priests and other perverted clergy by making a strawman argument that just because they aren't perfect, they shouldn't be disallowed as clergy.
Would you allow a habitual murderer to be a priest?
I'm not saying one has to be perfect----Im saying they shouldn't be clergy when they are engaging in the ongoing, continuous, habitual practice of walking in darkness, whether it be homosexuality, pedophilia, fornication, adultery, stealing, murder, drunkenness, being a dope addict, etc, etc. One doesn't have to be "perfect", however, anyone in the clergy does have to hold a pretty high standard, Scripture says so, and that standard includes not being a pedophile, adulterer, fornicator, theif, murderer, drunkard, etc, etc.
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