The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
TNS Archives

[SoothingDave]

I know that what was posted after I quoted the verse, (I'm thinking, but could be wrong that it was Arthur, remember him) was, "do you know that is a verse we base purgatory on."

I'm sure it was just sloppy use of the language by whoever said it. Sometimes we are more casual to not belabor everything, and sometimes we need to belabor.

What do you think of my "story"? I am avoiding particular issues and am trying to understand if I understand the process.

SD

[JohnnyM]

So do you beleive that you can lose salvation??

JM

[OLD REGGIE]

You get the Bishop the Pope decides to give you.
------------------------------------------------------------

And, "Pope" Peter decided, by himself, to appoint James The Just as Bishop of the Church at Jeresulem? In fact, the Popes always appointed the Bishops. Right????

[SoothingDave]

Sir, thanks for the welcome. Sorry if I missed your point.

Don't worry if you miss a point. Just wait a week or so and catch it the next time 'round. :-)

SD

[JohnnyM]

"How many of us, believe God already knows whether or not we will be in his kingdom?"

I do.

JM

[SoothingDave]

Do you believe that purgatory is a place of suffering?

Purgatory is a place (or state) where we are exposed for who we are. As our pitiful attempts to live righteously are exposed to the bliding Light of Christ, as our selfishness, our bad habits, our chronic sinfulness is peeled away to reveal the true adopted Son of God which we were always destined to be, there is a mental anguish.

Purgatory is also a place of great joy. While the process of being scrubbed might hurt, there is a joy in knowing that we are only steps away from eternal bliss.

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Of course he knew who would accept his free gift. 1 Pet:1:20. But this does not mean he PREDESTINATED who would be saved and who wouldn't. He knew what peoples response to him would be and so used it for his purposes.

Becky

[ksen]

First, thanks for your participation in the forum.

And thank you all for your cordiality.

We always enjoy new contributors (have you been here earlier?)

Yes, I posted to The Chronicles a while back. I was in a discussion with angelo about various Messianic Prophecies in the OT (TANAKH). I am trying to get into the habit of posting more, usually I just lurk.

I look forward to the rest of your answer.

-ksen

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Take my word for it your don't understand the process:) it's a sloppy use of language:)

Becky

[SoothingDave]

How many of us, believe God already knows whether or not we will be in his kingdom?

God knows everything. Yes.

SD

[JHavard]

Of course he knew who would accept his free gift. 1 Pet:1:20. But this does not mean he PREDESTINATED who would be saved and who wouldn't. He knew what peoples response to him would be and so used it for his purposes.

Becky, I need a Yes or No please.

[SoothingDave]

Take my word for it your don't understand the process:) it's a sloppy use of language:)

LOL OK, help me then. Where am I wrong? How is what I wrote Mr C doing different from the definition Reggie quoted?

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I find this so amazing...nothing I was taught in the catholic school seems to be right. How can you guys trust a religion that either 1. has to be very very bad at teaching their doctrine. or 2. changes it as they go along. It has to be one or the other.

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Yes

Becky

[vmatt]

My God doesn't "hate" anybody.

Mine do.

Hebrews 1

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Deuteronomy 16

22 Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the LORD thy God hateth.

Deuteronomy 12

31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.

Psalm 11

5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Proverbs 14

17 He that is soon angry dealeth foolishly: and a man of wicked devices is hated.

Hosea 9

15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.

Malachi 1

3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Psalm 26

5 I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked.

Malachi 2

16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.

[Joyful Wisdom]

No, sir

[Havoc]

Paul was given the Spirit, just like you or me, to "lead him unto all truth." Yet he had to go and check with the Apostles to make sure he was "on the same page" as them? How can this be? Do you think the Holy Spirit could have erred in what He told Paul?

Paul merely practiced what he preached by confirming his message with the only other authority on the matter. What's your point? We are to confirm everything against the only authority we have, the Bible. That's called insuring that you are hearing THE GOD rather than a god. But, then that isn't real important to ya'll as long as it seems right and you think you hear something....

[SoothingDave]

4 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.

I took a stab at this yesterday. I think the main point here is that those who have been given the gift of salvation and then descend into apostasy are really, really in trouble.

I wonder if the word "imposible" here is meant to be taken literally. It would seem to be shutting out a group of people from God's mercy and seems to run counter to other stories (like the prodigal son). I guess it depends on what "apostasy" means. If apostasy is "the sin against the Holy Spirit" then it is re-affirmed that those who do it can not be forgiven. I guess we should steer clear of apostasy then.

You make an interesting argument that those who have "tasted the goodness" can never be forgiven, therefore they must not be able to fall. I don't buy it. Certainly if you start with the idea that those chosen can not be lost, you reach a conundrum here which must be solved by making falling impossible.

If you start with the idea that some will persevere and some will not, this becomes a stark warning that falling away is irrepairable. SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I have to be honest. I don't really know what Reggie defined Sola Scriptura as. On your story, Mr. C sounds alot like me, I tried hard to reconcile what I was reading in the bible to catholic teachings. But it can't be done. So I left and found a church that interprets the bible the way I do. And I know I'm right because I know it's from the HS. But I can't tell you why. I know that sounds like a cop out, that is how I use to feel about that kind of remark.

As far as the term sola scriptura I think it is a, ohhh, slanderous term, that is used by catholics. Sorry, that's how I feel about it.

Becky

[SoothingDave]

I find this so amazing...nothing I was taught in the catholic school seems to be right. How can you guys trust a religion that either 1. has to be very very bad at teaching their doctrine. or 2. changes it as they go along. It has to be one or the other.

What were you taught that was different from what I said about Purgatory?

SD