Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Doesn't matter what the particular gift is. Paul said "the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands." That means that a gift of God can be conveyed to someone through the laying on of hands, which I believe was the point.
For the record, I believe the gift to which Paul is referring is the guidance of the Holy Spirit to enable Timothy to faithfully administer the office of a bishop in the Church of God. But that is secondary.
Because the Church is not just for the Jews. Jerusalem was a relatively unimportant outpost of the Empire. If you were serious about getting to the people, all the people, you would hitch your wagon to the capital city of the Empire.
Why is this so hard to udnderstand?
SD
Oh please. The Messiah had to be Jewish, you know that. Methinks you are pulling my leg.
SD
Becky
No. The point is a gift, not an office.
For the record, I believe the gift to which Paul is referring is the guidance of the Holy Spirit to enable Timothy to faithfully administer the office of a bishop in the Church of God. But that is secondary.
Yes the "gift" would help him to perform in the office but it isn't the office.
Actual knowledge of Greek or history is optional.
If you are going to persist in being silly we shall have to respond in kind.
SD
Get a Concordance and look it up for real.
Technically speaking, if there were some other substance (i.e. the poison) in the host, the consecration would not be valid.
1. The priest who is to celebrate Mass should take every precaution to make sure that none of the things required for celebrating the Sacrament of the Eucharist is missing. A defect may occur with regard to the matter to be consecrated, with regard to the form to be observed and with regard to the consecrating minister. There is no Sacrament if any of these is missing: the proper matter, the form, including the intention, and the priestly ordination of the celebrant. If these things are present, the Sacrament is valid, no matter what else is lacking. There are other defects, however, which may involve sin or scandal, even if they do not impair the validity of the Sacrament.
2. Defects on the part of the matter may arise from some lack in the materials required. What is required is this: bread made from wheat flour, wine from grapes, and the presence of these materials before the priest at the time of the Consecration.
3. If the bread is not made of wheat flour, or if so much other grain is mixed with the wheat that it is no longer wheat bread, or if it is adulterated in some other way, there is no Sacrament.
(Pope Pius V, Papal Bull De Defectibus)
Meaning is defined by context not vice versa (This is my mantra, btw). The usage of tokos to denote "interest" or "usury" is a metaphorical usage of the word "tokos." I'm guessing that the interest is the "offspring" of the principal that was loaned and thus came to be seen metaphorically as "tokos." Here's the link to assure you that the primary meaning of the wordtokos simply is to give birth to. Notice the primary meaning of the word and then the secondary meaning that is given.
I am talking about THE HEADQUARTERS, THE VATICAN. Or did all that come after Peter.
Becky
I'll take it up with Woodkirk's Exhausting Amusement. You are wrong. Completely and utterly wrong. After thosands of posts and months and months of time here, believe me, if your argument were plausible it would have arisen before. You are simply talking without any foundation.
Bass, can you alert this gentleman as to the meaning of "Theotokos?" He appears to know better than several dictionaries and reams of scholars.
SD
Actually, it was in Galilee that he encountered the most unbelief.
and coming to his own country he taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, "Where did this man get this wisdom and these mighty works? Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And are not all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all this?" And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house." And he did not do many mighty works there, because of their unbelief. (Matthew 13:54-58)
Yeah, I think I said that, or at least hinted at it. No, a communion host with poison in it is not valid matter for the sacrament.
But even if it were, the notion of substance and accidents still makes it deadly. SD
I don't. You've mistaken me for a Roman Catholic. I am not. Though I agree with them more often than not on these threads.
Your such a nice boy. :)
BigMack
Sooooo, what does your member name mean? :-)
Becky
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