Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
To be, or not to be,--that is the question:--
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them?--To die,--to sleep,--
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heartache, and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to,--'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die,--to sleep;--
To sleep! perchance to dream:--ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despis'd love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would these fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,--
The undiscover'd country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns,--puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought;
And enterprises of great pith and moment,
With this regard, their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.
And this bull was issued after how many hundreds of years of the inquisition? The councils (ie other Bishops, Cardinals, etc. were fully supporting these things). It's not an issue of a 4 year presedential term that can be sluffed off on one man or a few men - it was the entire church... It was so well accepted as belief of the church it is showing up in places other than the inquisition documents.
What precipitated your current quest to prove the fallibility claim of the church? You seem to be particularly oriented to this task at this time.
Yes. The righteous of all nations have a place in the World to Come.
That's right, you get two shots to fit in. Since your not Catholic, you can at least have the decency of being a Steeler fan, God's favorite people. :-)
SD
Oh thank you very much. And I always thought it was the sacrifice of Jesus that made this possible. Silly me.
Why do you read "acknowledge" as "made possible"? Is it because PBS always acknowledges the underwriters who make their shows possible?
SD
SD
Is that bad?
I think they are saying they (popes) were for it, but were not acting infallibly on this issue, so they were bad popes, and the infallible issue is still intact. I Think:)
Pretty close and pretty fair description, Becky. Thank you.
SD
Errors. Come on, Dave, you can say it. Then you'll just need coffee and cigarettes for your sessions.
I was of the opinion that the inquisition killings were against Bible beleiving church members.
This can not be said flat out. There were different inquisitions working at different times. And there were probably as many types of heretics as there are stars in the sky. I think that most of the recorded heretics that the Catholic Church has battled would be actually heretical, even in your own estimation.
There are detailed records of the beliefs of the major heresies the Church defeated. What is missing from these records is any group proclaiming a modern American style Fundamentalism. This means either that the Catholic Church never encountered this 19th century phenomenon in its earlier history, or that the Church kept records of all groups except this one.
SD
The one in Iraq? Or are you just using him symbolically. And just over the Catholic Church right? Because there were many other Apostles who watched out for thier own flocks with no oversight by Peter. Details, always burdened with pesky details..... There are far more of which these are but a few - unfortunately for your story...
Errors. Come on, Dave, you can say it. Then you'll just need coffee and cigarettes for your sessions.
C'mon Havoc. I find "attrocity" to be a much stronger word than "error." If I said we made "errors" you would call me on that, by pointing out that systematically eliminating heretics is not a mere "error."
There is no pleasing some people.
SD
To which I would add, the attrocity is in the fact that the Catholics did it in violation of God's commands. The jews were obedient. The Catholics were just murderers. That's pretty pointed; but, hey, I'm not known for pulling punches.
I do not follow the teachings of any man, and from my experience in an orginized Church, I never will.
I feel it safe to condemn any man who can justify killing anyone for their beliefs, and would question any thing else they might say, even though they were influenced by their superiors as far as their attitude was concerned, just as a person is a reflection of his family background today, but is still responsible for his own actions.
saradippity, you will never have to be concerned that I could be led by any man or organization to put you on trial for your beliefs, and I will defend you to my death for your right to live and view God in any manner you choose.
Signed...........JHavard
Please cut out along dotted lines. LOL
Yes, through out all these sorrows, God has allowed us to remain free moral agents, but we must have forgotten that one time He reversed his decision, and for a few hundred years, took charge of man and forced him to follow his will.
You mean when the Israelites were God's agent of destruction of the inhabitants of Canaan?
SD
Have you seen that Visa CheckCard(tm) commercial? The Steelers are playing the Titans and they are ready to take the snap, when all of a sudden over the loudspeakers comes "Loooviinng yyoouuu....."(whatever the rest of the song says). The teams look around trying to figure out what is going on, the camera shows people in the stands wondering what's going on.
For some reason when the camera pans to the guys all painted up I think of you, Dave. ;^)
That commercial always cracks me up.
-ksen
Chapter 15 15:1 Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD. 15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
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