The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
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[Invincibly Ignorant]

didn't work

[malakhi]

He told us to pray to the Father, not himself

I agree with you here. I cannot recall where Jesus ever asked anyone to pray to him.

We are not to worship Jesus

Ditto.

[malakhi]

Were is Hacoc, anyone heard from him?

Nope. He dropped out of sight before Thanksgiving, about the same time several others took some time off. His profile is up but he has no recent posts.

Havoc, you lurking?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Im curious. How old is everyone here? I think I'm the youngest of the bunch at 26. Anyone else younger??

I'm (gulp) 49

You know your old when you take a bath and your b@lls float.(OLD REGGIE & JHavard) :)

BigMack

[malakhi]

I describe the way I believe church should be. I have not started one, I would love to though.

Then you should!

It would include worship

Any sort of set format, or do you think something basically impromptu?

[malakhi]

Thirdly, Isn't it a little strange that a word was with God and the word was God? How is something with something when it already is that something?

Don't try to use logic on this. This sort of thing is why I prefer a straightforward monotheism.

[malakhi]

angelo you can go to hell for not telling the truth.:)

I think it is secondary. It is ideas that we spend more time discussing.

[malakhi]

Yes I did and I thought I sent you those two over again. Did you not get them?

Nope, just checked 1/2 hour ago.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

He told us to pray to the Father, not himself I agree with you here. I cannot recall where Jesus ever asked anyone to pray to him. We are not to worship Jesus Ditto.

That's funny he never stopped Mary, the sister of Martha & Lazarus, from wiping and kissing his feet with her hair, or the the one of 10 lepers that turned around and worshipped him or the blind man who fell on his knees and worshipped him after being interrogated by the chief priest and pharisees. I could go on and on.

[JohnnyM]

"Thirdly, Isn't it a little strange that a word was with God and the word was God? How is something with something when it already is that something?"

You have just described the mystery of the Trinity.

Clearly the Word was with God and the Word was God and the Word became flesh. So do you deny what John is saying here?? Was he in error??

JM

[vmatt]

Don't try to use logic on this. This sort of thing is why I prefer a straightforward monotheism.

I can only wonder how some of this sounds to you. And some here dare to expound on the progress and reformation of the "church". Soon, the oxcart will bottom out, then what?

[RobbyS]

They spoke Aramaic, but they used Hebrew in their worship and in study of scripture. All of those synagogues that Jesus visited were not using Greek translations. A bit like the Latin mass, no? Hebrew had become a sacred language rather than the vernacular. In Germany, before the days of universal education there was a social gap between those who spokespoke the local dialect and those who spoke Hochdeutsch, just as earlier between those who spoke the vernacular and those who spoke Latin. I suspect a similar gap existed between trained rabbis and ordinary people in First Century Palestine.

[vmatt]

Clearly the Word was with God and the Word was God and the Word became flesh. So do you deny what John is saying here?? Was he in error??

Of course he wasn't in error. Your interpretation is in error. This is a very difficult scripture and to believe the way you do you gives it far too much weight when there are far more scriptures identifying Father and Son, TWO! Here is how I interpret this verse: The Word was with GOD and the Word was A GOD.

Jesus was equal with God the Father, making Jesus a God. How can you think it not robbery to be equal with yourself?

Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

[D-fendr]

In case someone hasn't already pointed it out:

"Word" is translated from "logos" which has quite a different meaning and depth than what we think of when we say "word" as in spoken word.

[DouglasKC]

Second, just exactly what is "GOD"? Is God a name? Is it sufficient to narrow down what we are referring to? There are many gods. Which god is God? How many names has He got? The "I AM", the Creator, Jahweh, Jehovah etc. He is above all the Father of an only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus says He was His Father! He spoke to His Father! We have an eyewitness, Stephen saw Jesus standing at the right hand of His Father!

Comprehend this then: Jesus is the only God anyone on earth has ever known.

Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.

Joh 5:37 The Father who sent me also speaks for me, but you have never heard his voice or seen him face to face.

Joh 6:46 The only one who has seen the Father is the one who has come from him. No one else has ever seen the Father.

Well hmmm...if nobody has ever seen the father, then what who the heck was the old testament God that communed with Abraham, Moses, Adam and others?

The answer of course, is Christ, before Christ came in the flesh as Jesus.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it, and was glad.
Joh 8:57 The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.

[NATE4"ONE NATION"]

And I suspect if you recognized Mary is the Mother of God, you would come to realize the Holy Spirit is Her Spouse. Then, you would recognize He, too, should be worshipped.

I admit I have struggled as how to exactly pray to the Father. Do we talk to the Father, asking in Christs name? Do we speak to Christ asking Him to petition the Father? I prefer to pray as if to the Father and do so in Christs name. In keeping with the Lords prayer, but I also do the "Dear Jesus" thing I was accustomed to as a child.
I am not sure it matters. If the Spirit within me is not throwing up red flags I am ok.

The problem with your argument is you come to conclusions( I can fathom your logic though seriously disagree) that contradict scripture.
Mary was never "married" to the Holy Spirit. God in the flesh does not mean God half egg half Spirit. Marriage was not included.
Second, she is only proclaimed as blessed among women. And I agree. She was.
This by no means lends itself to her being "wed" to God. She is blessed. No more, no less. Her honor of carrying and giving birth to Christ was unique, astonishing and necessary, but not worthy of worship.

[NATE4"ONE NATION"]

Any sort of set format, or do you think something basically impromptu?

The best worship I experienced was when a few of us chose our favorite songs and sang them behind a warehouse at night before we started our Word study. We all chose a song, sang it and worshipped together.
Truely the best time of it I have had.

The worst was in a Calvary Chapel where the secondary worship group was leading the crowd and couldn't get every note just right like the other guys. They were bad at timing and not the best singers. The other was so perfect at it that this group was a distraction. I then realized that this emphasis on ending each song on the right note, scripting them to play to your emotions was of base.

Yes, my attitude was part, but they played it out that way. It was my worst time of it.

[NATE4"ONE NATION"]

26 here also!

[NATE4"ONE NATION"]

That's funny he never stopped Mary, the sister of Martha & Lazarus, from wiping and kissing his feet with her hair, or the the one of 10 lepers that turned around and worshipped him or the blind man who fell on his knees and worshipped him after being interrogated by the chief priest and pharisees. I could go on and on.

Be careful lest we give any ground to Catholic "Mary" worship! After all, she never stopped anyone either (actually, it is never recorded in the Bible at all due to it's absolute obsurdity! I don't think the early church could've come up with that one in the days of the Apostles at all.)

I agree with you though. As man, Christ directed us to the Father, but He is our advocate with the Father. Either way He is fully God also.

Funny how the Apostle's specifically stopped people from bowing and worshiping them. Somehow the Catholics miss that.

[vmatt]

The answer of course, is Christ, before Christ came in the flesh as Jesus.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it, and was glad. Joh 8:57 The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.

Well said. Well said.