Jesus took priests out of the loop. He himself became the priest offering himself to God as the perfect and last sacrifice. That was taking man out of the loop between us and God. There is no longer a middleman, God put himself in that gap. Priests were too busy screwing it up - as were the fleshly kings of Israel. God gave 'em both the boot and filled both positions himself.
And are you thinking about this.. I may not have fully clarified my statement earlier; but, using your logic, if one takes man out of the loop, how then can a question like, "That they can save themselves?" come into play? If they aren't in the loop, they couldn't possibly save themselves as they would be entirely hands off. That wasn't my argument and is not my argument. Are you reading the stuff or just being reactionary?
Havoc, what was it he would not believe? A miracle?
A miracle - no. It wasn't about a miracle, it was about whether Jesus was indeed risen. You have to seperate the two. Wrecking a car can be an accident but not every wreck is an accident nor every accident a wreck. The two can be the same and yet viewed seperately. This was about Jesus being the Messiah and fullfilling prophecy. Thomas was doubting a risen Messiah unless he could physically touch him. You're really fixated on miracles aren't you.
So was it still a sign or not?
So, yes it seems it is true, you are seeking appearance over substance. Never mind the facts. How can you make it look if you work hard enough at it and stretch and strain it for all its worth. Scripture either supports you or it doesn't. And here again it doesn't. Nothing personal; but, if you have to torture, stretch and break it to make it work, it isn't scripture, it's rigging. The duct tape betrays it.
That isn't my logic, look here... "Jesus denied his divinity and made his decisions as a man in order to prove that men can make the decisions to do the right thing - which is to follow and cling to the will of God in all things. Jesus proved it could be done." Now if I am reading you right Man is out of the loop because he can now chose to fallow God. This is a contradiction. Now maybe you didn't mean it that way, but if you can't be clear on this I don't see how I am at fault.
It wasn't about a miracle, it was about whether Jesus was indeed risen.
Interesting.... I've never thought about it like that before, God didn't do anything miraculous, it was just a bunch of stuff that happened.
Another question.... What do you say to a person who believes because of a Sign or a Miracle?