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To: Havoc
Had Jesus invoked his divinity anywhere along the line, he would have been admitting that men could not accomplish what he'd set out to prove they could.

I wasn't talking about invoking his divinity, my point was about the fact the he was God on the Cross. It sounds like you are saying all God was doing was trying to prove that we can save ourselves.

That was the point of Jesus' sacrifice - a ransom once and for all, and taking men out of the loop.

This is contrary to your other statement above.

He denounced tradition and rules of men.

Like the authority of the Chair of Moses?

He denounced those who looked for outward signs.

Like the Magi? Or Thomas?

81 posted on 10/10/2001 6:19:15 PM PDT by Pelayo
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To: Pelayo
I wasn't talking about invoking his divinity, my point was about the fact the he was God on the Cross. It sounds like you are saying all God was doing was trying to prove that we can save ourselves.

You are confusing the two and saying something I didn't even come close to saying or even hinting at. Jesus denied his divinity and made his decisions as a man in order to prove that men can make the decisions to do the right thing - which is to follow and cling to the will of God in all things. Jesus proved it could be done. If he hadn't, we'd have no sacrifice for sin. Period.

My prior quote:
That was the point of Jesus' sacrifice - a ransom once and for all, and taking men out of the loop.

This is contrary to your other statement above.

It isn't contrary, it follows from the prior statement. If Jesus as a man had not kept clean of sin, there would be no perfect sacrifice. If he had used divinity to accomplish it, he would have admitted that men could not do what he commands of them, obey his will. That too would void the cross.

Like the authority of the Chair of Moses?

The laws of God were long written and in effect by the time of the arrival of Jesus. Men were adding their own ideas to that which Moses gave from God. And that is what Jesus criticized. Who were they to add to God's law - as if to make themselves God. Nobody. Exactly right. And Jesus called them on it.

Like the Magi? Or Thomas?

What did Jesus say to Thomas? Read it. Thomas didn't believe the resurrected Jesus till he touched Him. Jesus said touch and be not faithless - blessed are those who do not see and yet believe. In other words (smack! "Here's your sign"). We have the coined phrase "doubting Thomas" from the incident because he was too faithless and dense. And the Magi were not seeking a sign, they saw one and responded. Ehem. Read it and call me a liar. They were going about their business, were knowledgeable enough in the word of God that when they saw the sign, they knew what it meant. They proceeded on. They didn't seek a sign, they ran across it and were spiritually awake enough to discern it for what it was. TWO VASTLY DIFFERENT THINGS.

We are to accept the Lord on faith; but, we are not to trust men they must prove themselves in their words and in their walk continually. We are not to be seekers of signs; but, doers of the Word and will of God - hearers and obeyers.

85 posted on 10/10/2001 7:18:07 PM PDT by Havoc
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