Proposal for identification cards praised

Washington Times ^ | October 8, 2001 | Audrey Hudson

[sarcasm]

A Senate proposal requiring foreigners to carry identification cards is being praised by immigration reform proponents as long-overdue legislation and a needed protection against terrorist attacks.

"It would be criminal not to enact, at the very least, this initial proposal," said Dan Stein, executive director of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR).

[sarcasm]

ping

[Arleigh]

Text of letter I sent to Bush, Ashcroft and my elected representatives last week. I urge everyone concerned about immigration to copy/alter and mail their own ASAP:

President George W. Bush
The White House
Washington, DC 20500

Dear President Bush:

Perhaps the most basic role of any government is to ensure the safety of its citizens. The barbaric terrorist attacks of September 11th have shown that our government has not been doing all it can do to safeguard Americans from foreign nationals in our country illegally who would do us harm.

Please, Mr. President, instruct the INS to immediately find, arrest and deport the over 9 million aliens now in our country illegally. Then, I beg you to reform the immigration system so that America can regain control of its borders. Considering that the recent attacks cost over 6,000 innocent lives, over $60 billion in physical damage, and uncounted billions more in economic damage, almost any expense to reform immigration and enhance enforcement of our laws is justified.

Although the main reason for ejecting aliens illegally in our country is to enhance public safety, an added bonus will be the millions of jobs that would make available to Americans unemployed by the current economic downturn, as well as the decreased burden on taxpayers.

God bless you, Mr. President, and God bless America!

[randog]

If when this goes through, can we start calling them 'criminals' instead of 'undocumented workers'?

[Dr. Frank fan]

Finally, something that makes sense - ID cards for foreigners. I'm as rabid an anti-National ID Card guy you're ever gonna see, but even I can go along with this proposal. Foreign visitors and immigrants are here at the discretion of the US Government and there is no reason on earth why they shouldn't have to carry these cards with them.

In fact many National ID Card proponents often say stuff like "But when I go to [insert foreign country, usually European], I have to carry my papers with me, and I don't mind." My response is always: Yeah, cuz you're not a citizen, you're a visitor, you idiot. Of course their governments ought to have some control over visitors and the like.

It's not an argument for forcing AMERICANS to carry National ID Cards. It's an argument for forcing FOREIGN VISITORS to do so - and I'm glad to finally see the proposal.

Now watch all the National ID Card fanatics rush into this thread and say that it's not enough just to track foreigners, we need to track grannies from Peoria as well....

[DoughtyOne]

I support this for foreigners on our soil. Once registered they can be detected when they haven't "checked out" on time.

Going this direction rather than focusing on citizens is exactly the right approach.

[madrussian]

For this proposal to make sense it first must be made a rule to deport illegals. All the illegals currently in the country would have to be identified and deported.

[ctdonath2]

It doesn't make sense. If someone does not have a "Foriegner ID Card" we have to presume they're a USA citizen, which kinda negates the whole point. If a cop asks if you have a Foriegner ID Card, and you say no and he doesn't believe you're a citizen, does he get to throw you in jail for a week while he attempts to verify your citizenship claim? Once again, the problem with gov't ID cards is that the people with them are not the ones we're concerned about.

[uncitizen]

Let's just hope this isn't the camels nose under the tent (no pun intended). They backed off the universal ID card because it was looking like innocent Americans were being asked to bear the burden on account of what the terrorists did. So they may be scaling it back to something more palatable to Americans in the current political climate.

[Dr. Frank fan]

So we may as well just go ahead and get rid of visa and green cards and the whole lot, too. I mean, what's the point of any of them? Anyone without these things is presumed to be here legally and/or a citizen, so what's the point?

Do I follow your logic correctly?

[Dr. Frank fan]

That's a good point. The proposal should be watched very carefully, of course. (And believe me, if this were to go through, I would expect efforts to "expand" the program - say, to "catch deadbeat dads" - to come soon after. These efforts should be resisted.)

[ikanakattara]

The idea of a national ID card is stupid. If you don't allow any immigrants in, and you round up and deport the ones you find, what's the problem?

[ctdonath2]

The key difference is visas & green cards need not be kept on one's person for immediate production upon demand. They're like passports & birth certificates: available if need be, but you're not going to be immediately jailed if you can't produce it on the spot.

[Dr. Frank fan]

So visas and green cards are more useful than a Foreign Visitor ID would be, because (the key difference being) foreigners aren't required to keep them on their person? I'm not following here.

Let's start from square one. Can you give me a good reason why visas or green cards should exist? Here is my counterargument: If the authorities encounter someone not carrying one of these things, "we have to presume they're a USA citizen, which kinda negates the whole point. If a cop asks if you have a" visa/green card, "and you say no and he doesn't believe you're a citizen, does he get to throw you in jail for a week while he attempts to verify your citizenship claim?"

Obviously not. Especially given the fact that "visas & green cards need not be kept on one's person for immediate production upon demand" in the first place.

Therefore they are completely worthless. Right?

What am I missing?

[sarcasm]

The key difference is visas & green cards need not be kept on one's person for immediate production upon demand.

"Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him.... Any alien who fails to comply with [these] provisions shall be guilty of a misdemeanor" and may be subject to fine and/or inprisonment upon each conviction

[sarcasm]

All the illegals currently in the country would have to be identified and deported.

This should be our #1 priority.

[sarcasm]

If when this goes through, can we start calling them 'criminals' instead of 'undocumented workers'?

I already do so!

[NittanyLion]

I think he has a point:

COP: Please show me your ID card.
FOREIGNER: I have no ID - I'm an American citizen.
COP: I don't believe you. It's time to go to jail. (Alternately: OK. Have a good one.)

I'm concerned that this proposal would only work if citizens also carried IDs on them at all times.

[sarcasm]

Great letter - let me know if you get a response.

[RightWhale]

this proposal would only work if citizens also carried IDs on them at all times

I agree with you on this issue.

And I also think that if we're not on a war footing, it is pointless, and if we are on a war footing, it is not strict enough. In either case it is a bad idea, half-measures.