Posted on 10/07/2001 4:41:26 PM PDT by HapaxLegamenon
Michael Matt, editor of the Remnant a traditionalist Catholic newspaper published the following report on their website. We have been informed by a reliable contact in France that Sister Lucy (the only surviving seer of the Fatima apparitions) has delivered a message to Carmelite sisters in France. According to this report, Sister Lucy recently received another communication from the Mother of God. In the wake of that communication, we are told, Sister Lucy has asked Carmelite sisters throughout the world to pray specifically on the Feast of the Most Holy Rosary for a special intention. That intention is, we are told, that the world might be spared “a blood bath.” Whether this has any connection to the impending war with Islamic terrorists, we have no way of knowing. Though our French source is reliable, we have not been able to confirm this report ourselves, and are now in the process of trying to do so. At least two Carmelite convents in the United States have indicated to us that they have NOT received such a message. One Carmelite convent, however, did confirm that they did receive a letter from the Asociatcion Ntra. Sca Del Rosario in Fatima Portugal (dated September 13th, 2001), which did call on the Carmelite order to unite with Sister Lucy in praying for peace in the world on October 7—the Feast of the Holy Rosary. In this letter (written in Spanish) there was no mention of a recent communication to Sister Lucy from Our Lady, nor was there reference to a “blood bath.” We are presently waiting for the text of the French version. In any event, we believe that, because time is short between now and the Feast of the Holy Rosary, it would be a good idea for all Catholics to join the Carmelites in praying for this intention on tomorrow’s Feast. Such an intention is a certainly most worthy, especially right now; so even if this French report turns out to be somehow exaggerated, the intention is still well worth remembering during this critical hour of unrest and uncertainty in the world.
[Luke 1:47] Mary said: "..And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior"
Unless you're a sinner .... you don't need a "Savior". :)
So many sufferers of cognitive dissonance ..... so little time!!
I'm sure Pope John Paul ll is a good man, however I think that there are evil forces at work in the Vatican and there is a battle going on there as well.
After saying Mass, Pope Leo XIII was privy to a conversation between the devil and God. The devil said he could destroy the church and he could do it in 100 years. God gave him permission to try. After hearing this conversation, the Pope went to his apartment and wrote the St. Michael prayer. This prayer used to be said after every Mass, but no more. By the way, this all took place around the year 1900.
You catholics need to think thing out a bit better :-)
Rome isn't in "Asia," which, at the time Revelation was written, meant what is now western Turkey. The "seven churches" were what we would call today "seven dioceses"; that is, seven churches in seven towns with an overseer (a bishop) and presbyters (priests) in each. All of them were part of the universal (Gk "kataholos," from which we get "Catholic") Church of Christ. (The older usage of "church" is still used; Protestants may use "Church of Rome" to mean the whole Catholic Church, but to Catholic ears, "Church of Rome" properly means the Rome diocese.)
Incidentally, by your logic, Jesus didn't found any of those "churches," because he never set foot in Asia, but lived and died in Judea and Galilee.
Scholars argue about when Revelation was written. However, we know that John died around AD 92. Eighteen years later, the bishop of Antioch, a man named Ignatius, wrote letters to the Christian communities he passed on his way to martyrdom in Rome. One of the letters was addressed to the bishop of Smyrna -- one of the churches mentioned in Revelation -- a man named Polycarp, who is elsewhere mentioned as a disciple of John the Apostle. Polycarp would himself die a martyr's death a few years later.
Ignatius, in his letters, directly identifies himself as "the bishop of the Catholic Church in Antioch".
You need to "think thing" a bit better, and also learn some more about your Bible, and more about Church history.
Summary of Biblical Evidences
The great Anglican writer and Christian apologist C.S. Lewis, in one of his last books, wrote:><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
A. Prayers for the DeadTobit 12:12; 2 Macc 12:39-45; 1 Cor 15:29; 2 Tim 1:16-18.
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B. Dead Saints Are Aware of Earthly AffairsMt 22:30 w/ Lk 15:7,10 & 1 Cor 4:9; Heb 12:1.
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C. Dead Saints Intercede For Those On EarthJer 15:1; 2 Macc 15:14; Rev 6:9-10.
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D. Intercessory Mediation of Saints and AngelsTobit 12:12-15; Rev 5:8 and 8:3-4.
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E. Dead Saints Appear On Earth to Interact With Men1 Sam 28:12-15 with Ecclesiasticus 46:20; 2 Macc 15:13-16; Mt 17:1-3 and 27:50-53; Rev 11:3.
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F. Guardian AngelsPs 34:7; 91:11; Mt 18:10; Acts 12:15; Heb 1:14.
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G. Angels Are Aware of Our ThoughtsLk 15:10; 1 Cor 4:9.
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H. Angels Participate In the Giving of God's GraceRev 1:4.
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". . . devotions to saints . . . There is clearly a theological defense for it; if you can ask for the prayers of the living, why should you not ask for the prayers of the dead? I am not thinking of adopting the practice myself; and who am I to judge the practices of others?"{Letters to Malcolm: Chiefly On Prayer, NY: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, 1964, pp.15-16}
So many lazy minds, so little time!
I was addressing certain obvious errors that stand against God's Holy Word, the only irrefutable standard that we all have. - How those errors may, or may not relate to such doctrines is not for the outsider to address, since erroneous doctrine affects only the individual(s) holding said doctrine.
So many sufferers of cognitive dissonance ..... so little time!!
Do souls who die as infants need a savior?
Do mentally incapacitated individuals need a savior?
Neither are capable of sinning. Are they left out in the cold?
Nothing in Scripture says "the dead cannot communicate with the living," and, in any case, those who die in Christ are not dead. He said so, right there in the Gospel of Matthew:
022:029 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.Besides, you seriously want to suggest that Jesus was sinning when he talked to Moses and Elijah at the Transfiguration?022:030 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
022:031 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
022:032 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Our only link beyond this world is the Holy Spirit, all other spirits are Antichrist, and are forbidden.
Except that 1 John 4:1 disagrees with you when it says:
004:001 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.It says "try [that is, test] every spirit," not "every spirit except the Holy Spirit is Antichrist".
Why do you believe such unBiblical doctrines?
First of all, I never said anything about Fatima. I actually have a great devotion to Our Lady of Fatima and believe that she was instrumental in the defeat of atheistic communism. The apparitions at Fatima have been investigated by the Church and found worthy of belief. I don't see how that relates in any way to something the visionary allegedly sees later in life and that is reported by a Pope-hating schismatic. I will still wait for the proper authorities to make a statement. We are not obliged to believe in every single apparition that comes down the pike, and in fact the Church has declared some apparitions dangerous. Second of all, any well catechized Catholic will tell you that the faithful are not obliged to give the assent of faith to private revelations, which are merely optional aids to faith. There is only one public revelation which ended with the death of the last apostle, John the Evangelist, and in fact no true private revelation can contradict the content of the faith.
Please do not erect a strawman, and then do battle with it in my name. - Most of us will experience death here on Earth, and that earthly death does indeed divide our existance in very profound ways.
Let's not play with words, we're talking ideas, are we not?
Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Luke 1:30 And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.
Luke 1:35 And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 1:42 And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
Luke 1:48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
Typology teaches Mary's sinlessness. The Ark of the Old Covenant prefigured Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant. How could Mary have fullness of grace if she were touched by sin, since every sin diminishes grace? Catholics do not worship Mary. Catholics worship God alone. Catholics honor Mary because Jesus honored Mary and we are called to imitate Christ.
Do you believe in the Trinity, the canon of the Bible and the death of the last Apostle closing the deposit of faith? If yes, then tell us where we can find these explicitly mentioned in the Bible.
Would you like a scriptural reference to help you understand this? See Luke 1:41-43. When she met Mary, Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. While filled with the Holy Spirit, Elizabeth cried out, Who am I that theMOTHER OF MY LORD should come to me? Under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit, Elizabeth calls Mary the Mother of the Lord. The Lord is GOD, my friend. She didn't say "mother of the messiah" or "mother of the Savior" or "mother of that part of Jesus which is human". Do you think that the Bible is wrong on this point?
With regard to your contention that Mary was a sinner, just like all other human beings, again you err. The angel Gabriel greeted Mary with the words, "Hail full of grace". Grace is the "freely given and unmerited favor and love of God." Alone among creatures referred to in the Bible, Mary is "full of grace". She could not have complete and full frienship with God unless she had never sinned. Why do you deny this? Do you think it is impossible for God to create a human being, preserve that person from original sin, and give that person the grace to avoid all sin during their life? And, if God were to create such a person, can you think of a better person to receive such a great favor than the woman who would be the mother of his only Son?
I truly worry about people like your self who seem to have a visceral hostility toward Our Lady. When you appear before Jesus, as will we all, how do you intend to explain the neglect, if not outright hostility, you demonstrate toward her? I guarantee you that Jesus loved her more on earth and loves her more in Heaven than even her most ardent devotee on earth could love her. Why not follow his example?
Except that your refutations of those so-called "obvious errors" contradict the very same "irrefutable standard" you claim to believe!
Look, if you're trying to get me to take your word over the clear teachings of Jesus Christ -- as you do when you tell me that Mary is "dead" -- I'm not going to do it.
For that matter, if you're trying to get me to take your word over 15 centuries of clear teaching throughout Christendom on the meaning and significance of the Incarnation -- as you do when you try to tell me that Mary is not the Mother of God -- I'm not going to do that, either.
What it amounts to is trying to get me to believe that you are guided by the Holy Spirit, and nobody else is. That idea may appeal to your pride, but that's not much of an attraction for me.
The doctrine of the perpetual sinlessness of the Holy Virgin Mary, is neither erroneous nor a contradiction of the Word of God. I understand that you profess reverence for the Word of God -- but your actions speak otherwise. Reverence for the Scriptures is hardly manifested by manipulating them to suit your ends, but that is precisely what you did when you extracted an out-of-context quote from Romans that had nothing to do with the point you were trying to make.
Think. The Scriptures (yes, even the KJV) did not fall fully formed from Heaven. They were inspired by God, but the CHURCH assembled them into the Bible, and is charged with their interpretation.
As for the sola Scriptura stuff, it's interesting that this concept is to be found nowhere in Scripture. It first appears in human history in the writings of Wyclif in the 14th Century. The irony of the position (aside from the fact that it isn't Scriptural) is that the Scriptures defined as inspired were so defined by the Catholic Church. Of course, any of those which contradicted the Protestant Reformers' positions on various issues were conveniently chucked from Protestant Bibles during the so-called Reformation, but the irony remains.
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