Few Commando Units in Striking Distance

New York Times ^ | Oct. 6, 2001 | Thom Shanker

[Hit & Run Poster]

it has 18,000 foot tall mountains

and mountains up to 24,000+.

[biggerten]

Does anyone know how long it might take to obtain a basic understanding of a foriegn language?

Can someone learn enough to operate on a primitive basis in a few weeks, for example? I have been wondering about this for some time.

[Cautor]

The NY Slimes--when did they become an expert on the US military they so routinely denigrate. The unAmerican crowd that pens the tripe they peddle as news is clueless about what we can/cannot/will/will not do. They share much of the blame for this cowardly attack on the US. They've spent years pampering every criminal they can.

[joebuck]

It is very satisfying to watch ole W play the NY Times and the Wash Post like a fiddle. The amount of dis-information which is being leaked and then mindlessly disseminated by the mainstream media indicates a very skillful psych-ops operation in progress. It's sweet to know that the editors of the Times know exactly how they are being used and hate it but still keep pumping out every piece of info which is fed to them.

[AndyJackson]

Rule number 1. Don't argue with Travis about this. He's been there and done that.

Rule number 2. Get real. Special forces are still flesh and blood, more or less members of the human race. They are the best in the world at what they do, but they don't take down 18,000 foot mountains with one hand tied behind their backs.

If Bin Laden holes up in a cave, we can detonate enough rock and dirt to bury him forever.

Rule number 3. An 18,000 ft mountain is big - real big. A nuclear weapon will only make a dent in the side of it. All the high explosives in the world will just make a bit more rubble to bounce down the sides.

Bin Laden ain't safe. But he ain't exactly caught yet either.

[lavaroise]

The disastrous attempt to kidnap a Somali warlord, Mohammed Farrah Aidid, in 1993 certainly ended public support for involvement there.

It was only disastrous because our welfare liberal mentality made it so. It was a success like the barrage against the Tet Offensive, but noooo! some of our people with civilians got killed and somehow that was unacceptable for a people who want protection but not pay for it. Hence, when we let arabs protect our oil assets abroad against RUssia, China or even India, those arabs find it in the end easier to kill us than those abroad for the money we pay them. Bottom line is that they turn against us, and I would too, I mean how stupid!

[walden]

If the military had been turned loose to fight in Beruit in the manner they thought best, rather than being kept leashed to political considerations, would it have turned out differently?

[Travis McGee]

We were not tryig to "occupy" Beirut or Mogadishu either. In Mogadishu, we were just trying to snatch Aidid's officers, THREE MILES from the Ranger/Delta compound, not 800 miles from our fleet assets.

Look, I was a specoops officer, I just am tired of the gung ho "Hoo-Ah" from folks who have NO CLUE of how comlex and difficult this might be if Osama does a good and unpredictable job of hiding with a tiny band (under 20 total) in the wilds of the Hindu Kush in one of his many prepared secret hideouts.

[Travis McGee]

"Turned loose to fight", what does that mean? Level a city of a million at civil war, killing everybody in the hopes of getting the part that was fighting us?

[walden]

I don't know much about either one of those conflicts-- what I meant was turned loose to accomplish the objective in the manner they saw fit. I do know that a big, big problem with Vietnam was micro-management by civilian authorities. Of course, if the objective is set too narrowly (i.e., "get" bin Laden) than that can be a big problem as well-- a more reasonable objective might be, overthrow the Taleban, establish civil authority and order, eliminate the use of Afghanistan as an effective training and staging base for terrorism, and clean out as many of bin Laden's people as possible by whatever means necessary (from going to find them, to watching for movement and striking anything that moves, to keeping them pinned in their hideouts until they freeze, starve, or go nuts.) If the broader goals I have outlined are, in fact, our goals, can our military forces do it?

[arete]

That statement couldn't be further from the truth. In Somalia, tha failure was 100% political, 100% Clinton's unwillingness to take the mission seriously, and reluctance to act.

You got that right. Bubba was chasing interns instead of paying attention to what was going on at the time. Any failure in Somalia was all Bubba's.

Richard W.

[Vinomori]

Does anyone know how long it might take to obtain a basic understanding of a foriegn language? Can someone learn enough to operate on a primitive basis in a few weeks, for example?

Good question. Defense Language Institute gives you almost a year, but you know the language inside out like a native, including hugely detailed military lingo. But we Americans are far too weak in this area. Our high schools and colleges are very weak in this. If you show up for class and are "trying" you will pass a foreign language and get the promise of no homework ever. We are not, as a nation, good with this. Our education system is all about sympathy to those who might have to really study something. Ambassadors often don't speak the language where they are stationed, which is shameful. Both Bush brothers speak Spanish, which, given their states of governership, was simply responsible. You certainly could become pretty effective in the basics in a few weeks. Especially if you really studied---total immersion, (like the night before finals). The CIA's and FBI's lack of Arabic-speaking personnel is as pathetic now as a weak military would be. This must be changed quickly.

[jammer]

Bush wants to hit Bin Laden and the Taliban hard and get the hell out.

Well, of course. We all want that. What (if I may be so bold to interpret for him) Travis McGee is saying is that it will not be easy. The FDNY heroes are only the first of many, many heroes that we will see die. Do not underestimate the enemy. We may not want to occupy, and we may be lucky enough to not have to, but it is a possibility.

Let's wipe out our problem. We cannot just wound the tiger like we did in Iraq. We have to kill it!

[Travis McGee]

One thousand US Marines could not control a million wildmen in Beirut, not under any condition, if the wildmen were determined to snipe and bomb.

Same deal in Magadishu.

In Afghanistan, ten thousand specops troops will have their work cut out for them in a nation of 15 million the size of Texas.

With skill and luck, we may catch or kill Osama, or he could hide for avery long time Geronimo style.