Posted on 10/05/2001 3:08:36 PM PDT by malakhi
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The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles) -- Thread 157
layout as follows: top line KJV. Second line NIV.
[1] Rebuke not an elder, but entreat him as a father; and the younger men as bretheren;
[1] Do not rebuke an older man harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father. Treat younger men as brothers
[2] The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters with all purity.
[2] older women as mothers, and younger women as sisters with absolute purity
[3] Honour widows that are widows indeed.
[3] Give proper recognition to those widows who are really in need.
[4] But if any widow have children or nephews, let them learn first to show piety at home, and to requite their parents: for that is good and acceptable before God.
[4] But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents.
[5] Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day.
[5] The widow who is really in need and left all alone puts her hope in God and continues night and day to pray and to ask God for help.
[6] But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.
[6] But the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives
[7] And these things give in charge, that they may be blameless.
[7] Give the people these instructions, too, so that no one may be open to blame.
[8]But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
[8] If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
[9] Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man.
[9] No widow may be put on the list of widows unless she is over sixty, has been faithful to her husband.
[10] Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.
[10] and is well known for her good deeds, such as bringing up children, showing hospitality, washing the feet of the saints, helping those in trouble and devoting herself to all kinds of good deeds.
[11] But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry.
[11] As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sexual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they want to marry.
[12] Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
[12] Thus they bring judgement on themselves, because they have broken their first pledge.
[13] And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.
[13] Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they becomd idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to.
[14] I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guid their house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
[14] So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander.
[15] For some are already turned aside after Satan.
[15] Some have in fact already turned away to follow Satan.
[16] If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed.
[16] If any woman who is a believer has widows in her family, she should help them and not let the church be burdened with them, so that the church can help those widows who are really in need.
[17] Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
[17] The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.
Ok, that oughtta do it. Now, what is the majority topic being discussed here?
bass ask the next 10 people you run into if they are going to heaven when they die and you will get answers like I hope so, I'm not sure, I'm a good person, I give money to the church, I've been baptized. But wery few will say yes 100% when I die I'm going to heaven because of what Jesus did for me and I trust in him for that.
Now ask them if they are Christians and they will tell you yes they are for the most part and they are working at being a good person. Now ask them where they go to church and you will find there in all faiths and they think kinda maby they might be saved if they could just get to be a better person.
Now where is all this doubt comming from? The churches that teach a works based salvatition. I believe that people will be saved in all of these churches not because of what they teach but because of what they read for themselfs in the bible and have truly accepted Christ only and nothing else for their salvatition. That being said what about the rest that believe the false work based churches that are all comming together for the sake of unity? They say we all have Jesus in common so lets put aside our differences whats a little doctrin to get in the way? What about the folks that are trusting in Jesus and their works? Do we not show them the simple truth?
If you did a study on most churches statement of faith or what they believe and teach to their members you will be shocked on how many are teaching a works based faith, the catholic church is not the only one that does.
BigMack
I would call that the perfect prayer.
Ro 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
No matter how stupid our prayer, if we are sincere, the Holy Spirit translates it into a perfect prayer to take before God.
If it weren't for that, it would probably be better if I only read my prayers.Lol
Pastoral duties or teaching the flock.
BigMack
The role and treatment of womwn in the Church.
The dating of the NT was done book by book. Each book was dated on it's merits. The books I have drawn from have all been dated prior to 70 with the exception of Revelation which is dated at 96AD. The widely accepted date for Paul's death is between 65-67 AD. II Timothy reports Paul's impending death; but, it also shows the intrigue of the times looming in the background. The mention of the lion's mouth in II Timothy 4:17 is looked upon as reference to the circus; which Paul could have been subjected to; but was saved from. That narrows the period significantly for us to after 64. It seems this factor was also a consideration in the dating of I Peter. II Peter suggests that Pete is going to die soon. There is no fixed date on Peter; but, I've seen dates as late as 70 AD. Majority opinion on the matter favors 67AD-70AD, As most feel comfortable with the dating for Paul and feel certain that Peter died after Paul. We also know that Acts was written prior to 66 AD and the evidence suggests 60-63. This is one of the baselines that is fairly solid for judging baselines for many of the letters. And the majority of the texts are actually considered to be written PRIOR to 70 AD because of the existence of the temple or the absence of any discussion regarding it's destruction or the slaughter and scattering from Jerusalem. On a personal note, I think we can be certain that Peter Died prior to the destruction of the Temple for one reason: If Peter had been alive, He most certainly would have written something of a letter of Comfort for the Jews as a result. There is no way he would have failed to address this given all that we know of him.
A subject I'd like to jump backward on and address that hasn't been addressed is the fact that when Paul entered Rome, the Jews there had heard something of the new covenant. Some want to go nutty on this. But if we look back to the day of Pentecost, there were people present from every corner of the empire and beyond. People had heard this discussed but they weren't fully appraised. And it wasn't Peter writing to keep the Italians in line, it was Paul - he is the one who addressed the Cretan issue - the lying Cretans who were so renowned for their lies that it is coined even today.
It's interesting that Paul is aware of and dealing with these things while Peter Is actually dealing with his own ministry and dispatching letters to AsiaMinor. There is much that can be gleened from the word that is just flatly overlooked by most. Do I think Peter was a great man of God? Most certainly. I just don't find anything that supports your claims. Your claim begs answers to more questions that you guys can't or won't answer or even bother to address. It creates problems that cannot be reconciled. And it ignores things we know were happening. If there were a bishop in Rome at the time that was a contemporary of Paul there is no way on God's green earth they would not have seen him before it was too late. Peter never visited him there - if he did, it was never recorded by a contemporary. There is no record of an upheaval between Peter and Paul. There is no show of bitterness in Peter's writings. Too many little things.....
From Thread 157:
This horse is going to help me to the Kingdom. He's going to launch me there:). No he's not sick, he's a stubborn 3 yr. old and I am just not a firm enough rider to control it. You know anyone who needs a beautiful overo paint? He is for sale.:) I've seen him work good for some one more aggressive then I.
This should be easy, Becky. Just pretend he's BigMack.
Havoc wrote: The devil?
Would a catholic agree that a demon posing as an angel of light, in order to deflect attention from Jesus Christ, could even be a remote possibility?
The local church's care for its members, especially widows. Where is this leading, brother?
Matt. 6 says: "But when you pray, go into your inner room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will repay you. And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition, as the pagans do who think that they will be heard because of their many words. Therefore do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him." No need for recitations; just talk to the Father; this is the kind of prayer that pleases Him, according to this passage.
Where I was headed with it Is simple. The Catholic Church says that Paul is referring to 1st century nuns here.. Pretty sad isn't it.
Let me guarantee you that at least one person in YOUR church would say the same thing (I hope I'm saved, I go to church, I'm a good person). Is that because your church doesn't teach the right thing? Not necessarily. Just that some people are dense and others cannot be taught.
Do we not show them the simple truth?
No. We must each stand in our separate corners and wonder why we aren't impacting the world.
I know that some Catholics are squirming uncomfortably about their doctrine regarding these verses as it just don't make sense. But they can't say that it's wrong.
The Bible has a special place for the fatherless and the widow, the downtrodden, the outcast. And it ain't called a nunnery.
Frankly D-fendr I was raised Southern Baptist and I found myself laughing loudly at your joke. I went to the site and found several other prayer books that were listed there also.
A Mother's Garden of Prayer by Sarah Maddox and Patti Webb By weaving Scripture into prayers, this book creates a beautiful garden metaphor that shows readers the importance of spending time in our personal prayer garden, interceding for our children.
hmmmm Jesus prayed in a garden this book recomends a garden, maybe I need to get dear old hubby to work on that one. I wonder if he will do some yard work if I tell him that God may not hear my prayers unless they are prayed in a beautiful garden. Probably not he is setting in his chair reading the political threads in the free republic.
I read all of your versions and found them equally humorous.
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