Posted on 10/03/2001 9:14:11 PM PDT by MHGinTN
You've let the jinni out of the bottle!
Another thread on Islamic culture I found, um, revealing: The Sexual Rage Behind Islamic Terror
the sect of Wahhabism which is very restrictive, yet this sect doesn’t seek to kill any who do not conform, Muslim or non-Muslim … but it is from this fundamentalist form of Islam that Osama bin Laden has arisen, and some few in Saudi Arabia have supported him all along.Your comparison illustrates the grave difference between our civilizaion and the Muslim world. The underlying problem is that even the "moderate" Muslims do not truly condemn the terrorists. If we had a Baptist terrorist group, they would be soundly condemned by every religious organization—including their own General Conference. They would literally be hunted down by other Christian Americans and destroyed like the rabid dogs they were.Now we get to your premise:
this imaginary sect of radical Baptists become so incensed that they take up terrorism against television networks and bars and . . .
You just don't see such a response in Islam. Their official protestations are lukewarm at best and outright laudatory at other times. These people (the moderates) are either cowards or liars.
I will believe moderate Muslims are serious when they issue fatwahs against the terrorists, excommunicate everyone who aids in terrorism and decorate every lamppost in the Middle East with a terrorist head. Until then, they are accomplices and accessories to murder and cannot be trusted.
Even our few allies who have integrity are beset by faction within their own ranks. I don't know the answer, but we are making our bed with vipers and our “sleep” may be longer than planned.
"there is in Saudi Arabia the sect of Wahhabism which is very restrictive, yet this sect doesn’t seek to kill any who do not conform, Muslim or non-Muslim … but it is from this fundamentalist form of Islam that Osama bin Laden has arisen, and some few in Saudi Arabia have supported him all along."
I have read other analysis recently which seems to say that the violence is much more intrinsic to "Wahhabism" than is indicated above. I have no clue myself, but obviously it is very important to understand Saudi Arabia as completely as possible and this would certainly be an important aspect of that understanding.
We are in a war of survival, whether we have realized that yet or not. I fear that our efforts may require 'sterilization' of whole geographic areas if the Islamic community doesn't awaken to this evil growing near the heart of Islam.
As a matter of life and death for Western civilization, we will eventually awaken ... awaken with the means to sterilize the disease of terror tactics.
As Travis so aptly put it, the Arabic world cannot eat petroleum and they have a huge refugee problem. Perhaps these Islamic muddleheads will consider the starvation of so many as our fault; it isn't of course, for we are feeding so many now. But thier lies will not hide the FACT that the Islamic world could have gotten involved in curing the cancer before plague and pestilence broke out over broad areas consuming vast populations of people put at risk by this extremism of Muslim fanatics.
If and when we bomb the Saddam Insane machinery, what will happen to the stored chemical and biological weaponry he has amassed during the failed clinton debacle?... The pestilence will effect the Iraqi people! Oh, the liars for Islam will accuse US of dropping such weapons upon their heads, but the truth will be too obvious. And what of Osama's tunnel labs, where he and his sick murdering fanatics are developing biological and chemical weapons of mass destruction? When we bomb those, will lies serve the Afghani and Pakistani populations who are subsequently poisoned by Osama's fanaticism?
As fanaticism rises, wisdom retreats. That is very saddening.
This analysis is correct. It is very like our "friends" to the south, who are polled as 20 % with the terrorists and 60% neutral. We may have more third world enemies (because of envy)than we realize.
What bin Laden represents and is seeking to achieve is best understood as totalitarian, as subjugation, with annihilation for those who will not bow before his extreme. Because of this holy terror, Osama bin Laden and his network must be eradicated from the earth, and the use of terror must be ended in theaters of international and regional interaction.
Thanks Marvin. A very informative and well-written essay.
As long as these murderers are admired and Islamic parents raise their children to see such murderers as heroic, this plague will not disappear. We are in a war of survival, whether we have realized that yet or not. I fear that our efforts may require 'sterilization' of whole geographic areas if the Islamic community doesn't awaken to this evil growing near the heart of Islam.
I am now saddened to agree with your analysis. Nowever, these fanatics would rather see the entire earth annihilated than have infidels win. The prosecution of such actions will just add fuel to an already dangerous inferno. I cannot see such a course leading to anything other than Armegeddon.
Someone else stated this wasn't a religious war because they killed other Muslims, and didn't attack churches or temples. But, to look at it from a cultural perspective, our financial centers would symbolize the religion of mammon.
Muslim orthodoxy, in my limited understanding, views Christians and Jews similarly to virtuous goyim (those who are not Jews) in Judaism. Such a relationship may be neutral or amicable, but the orthodox cannot take advantage of them without coming under condemnation.
These terrorists view all non-Muslims and even Muslims who have dealings with non-Muslims as infidels or heretics who can be killed without condemnation. There is no distinction between “People of the Book” and licentious criminals.
Yes, it will.
BUT, it's part of the "end times" Bible prophecies, in which God brings about these conditions, in order to bring His judgement upon the whole world -- at the time of the 7-year Tribulation (period of time). This was the time told about by Daniel and referred to by Jesus Christ (in Matthew).
What we are seeing -- to put it in perspective -- is that "end time scenario" in which all the "players" are being moved into position for that "last act" -- prior to the time of Jesus Christ's arrival and the setting up of His Kingdom on this earth, which He rules from Jerusalem over all the nations.
Islam is a Satanic religion -- being used by Satan, in his attempt to bring about the destruction of Israel, in order to prevent the "plan of God" from being carried out (as He has told us already). And in this, Satan will fail, along with his Satanic religion of Islam (which is dedicated to the destruction of Jews and Christians [by their own words in the Koran]).
God says He will prove His Name to be true and He will bring about the total and complete restoration of Israel to the land that He promised Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God will not forsake them or forget His promises. This is being done right now. Islam will be totally destroyed and every such "believer" in it will be destroyed by the coming of Jesus Christ to set up His Kingdom and that such person thrown into the Lake of Fire.
It certainly is against the Christian and the Jew. And it certainly is a "religious war" -- by their own proclamations and doing.
23 February 1998
Shaykh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin
Ayman al-Zawahiri, amir of the Jihad Group in Egypt
Abu-Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, Egyptian Islamic Group
Shaykh Mir Hamzah, secretary of the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Pakistan
Fazlul Rahman, amir of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh
Praise be to God, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book: "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)"; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said: I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but God is worshipped, God who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders.
The Arabian Peninsula has never -- since God made it flat, created its desert, and encircled it with seas -- been stormed by any forces like the crusader armies spreading in it like locusts, eating its riches and wiping out its plantations. All this is happening at a time in which nations are attacking Muslims like people fighting over a plate of food. In the light of the grave situation and the lack of support, we and you are obliged to discuss current events, and we should all agree on how to settle the matter.
No one argues today about three facts that are known to everyone; we will list them, in order to remind everyone:
All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries. This was revealed by Imam Bin-Qadamah in "Al- Mughni," Imam al-Kisa'i in "Al-Bada'i," al-Qurtubi in his interpretation, and the shaykh of al-Islam in his books, where he said: "As for the fighting to repulse [an enemy], it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a duty as agreed [by the ulema]. Nothing is more sacred than belief except repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life."First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples.
If some people have in the past argued about the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it. The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, but they are helpless.
Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation.
So here they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors.
Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there. The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel's survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula.
On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:
The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it [EMPHASIS ADDED], in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God."
This is in addition to the words of Almighty God: "And why should ye not fight in the cause of God and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)? -- women and children, whose cry is: 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will help!'"
We -- with God's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson.
Almighty God said: "O ye who believe, give your response to God and His Apostle, when He calleth you to that which will give you life. And know that God cometh between a man and his heart, and that it is He to whom ye shall all be gathered."
Almighty God also says: "O ye who believe, what is the matter with you, that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of God, ye cling so heavily to the earth! Do ye prefer the life of this world to the hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For God hath power over all things."
Almighty God also says: "So lose no heart, nor fall into despair. For ye must gain mastery if ye are true in faith."
You'll find this information at --
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm
it is essential to note that both Jew and Arab are descended from the patriarch, Abram, or Abraham.
Is Ishmael the ancestor of the Arabs?
Cordially,
He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers."
(Genesis 16:11-12)
Ahhh... yes, from that web site, we see immediately that this certainly does fit what is going on. Of course, what the Bible says is never untrue. God has known this from the beginning and that the false and Satanic religion of Islam would be used by these Arabs to bring about that very thing that God says ("... his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.").
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