Posted on 10/01/2001 12:35:49 PM PDT by newzjunkey
"Not all religions are the same. They're not all good."
"Christianity [is good and] should be contrasted with Islam and its impact."
"On what basis could you justify suicide mass killing everywhere."
He claims it's justified in Islam (by Bin Ladin) because the US is seen as a warzone, just as bombings in Israel are justified by Islamics, even those who condemn the WTC attacks because Israel is a warzone.
Are you a Christian?
I'm Jewish, though I'm hardly a Talmud scholar. We gave the world (via Moses from G-d):
But the stranger who dwells with you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt; (Lev 19:34)We also have that stuff about bearing false witness.
Regarding "Abodah Zara 26b," here is the translation I have:
Talmud - Mas. Avodah Zarah 26bI'd be curious to know which part of my translation here might have been interpreted by anyone honest as an exhortation to kill Gentiles. And even if it were in there someplace, could you point to any time in history where Jews have acted according to your supposed Talmud quote.though they must not be cast in, but minim,1 informers, and apostates may be cast in, and need not be brought up.’ Whereupon R. Johanan remarked: I have been learning that the words, And so shalt thou do with every lost thing of thy brother's [thou mayest not hide thyself],2 are also applicable to an apostate, and you say he may be thrown down; leave out apostates! Could he not have answered that the one might apply to the kind of apostate who eats carrion meat to satisfy his appetite,3 and the other to an apostate who eats carrion meat to provoke? — In his opinion, an apostate eating carrion meat to provoke is the same as a min.4
It has been stated: [In regard to the term] apostate there is a divergence of opinion between R. Aha and Rabina; one says that [he who eats forbidden food] to satisfy his appetite, is an apostate, but [he who does it] to provoke is a ‘min’; while the other says that even [one who does it] to provoke is merely an apostate. — And who is a ‘min’? — One who actually worships idols.5
An objection was raised: If one eats a flea or a gnat he is an apostate. Now such a thing could only be done to provoke, and yet we are taught that he is merely an apostate! — Even in that case he may just be trying to see what a forbidden thing tastes like. The Master said: ‘They may be cast in and need not be brought up’ — if they may be cast in need it be said that they need not be brought up? — Said R. Joseph b. Hama in the name of R. Shesheth: What is meant to convey is that if there was a step in the pit-wall, one may scrape it away, giving as a reason for doing so, the prevention of cattle being lured by the step to get unto the pit. Raba and R. Joseph both of them said: It means to convey that if there is a stone lying by the pit opening, one may cover the pit with it, saying that he does it for [the safety] of passing animals. Rabina said: It is meant to convey that if there is a ladder there, he may remove it, saying, I want it for getting my son down from a roof.
Our Rabbis taught: An Israelite may perform a circumcision on a heathen for the purpose of becoming a proselyte — thus excluding [the purpose of] removing a morana.6 But a heathen should not [be allowed to] perform circumcision on an Israelite, because he is liable to take his life. This is the opinion of R. Meir. The Sages said: A heathen may circumcise an Israelite, so long as others are standing by him, but not while he is on his own.7 R. Meir, however, said: Not even when others are standing by, for he may find occasion to let the knife slip and so sterilise him. Does then R. Meir hold the opinion that a heathen is not [to be allowed to circumcise]? But the opposite is proved by the following: In a town where there is no Jewish physician, but there is a physician who is a Cuthean as well as one who is an idolater, circumcision should be performed by the idolater but not by the Cuthean.8 This is the opinion of R. Meir. R. Judah, however, said: It should be performed by the Cuthean but not by the idolater?9 — Reverse [the names]: R. Meir holding that the Cuthean and not the idolater should circumcise, and R. Judah holding the idolater and not the Cuthean. Does then R. Judah hold that it is in order for an idolater to do so? Surely it has been taught: R. Judah said: Whence can it be deduced that circumcision performed by a heathen is invalid? From this verse, And as for thee, thou shalt keep my covenant!10 — Indeed, do not reverse, but say that we are here dealing
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(1) Those who act as priests to idols whether they be Israelites or heathen (Rashi).
(2) Deut. XXII, 3.
(3) When he can get no other meat; but who would avoid eating forbidden food when other food is at hand.
(4) And does not require specification.
(5) Hor. 11a.
(6) A parasite worm(?) which may be lodged in the foreskin; which would mean healing without payment.
(7) Tosef. ‘A.Z. Ch.III.
(8) An idolater does not usually practise circumcision. He would therefore perform it in accordance with the intention of the father of the infant. The Cutheans (Samaritans) however, observe circumcision in the name of some object of worship placed on Mount Gerizim where their Temple stood — for which an Israelite must not afford an opportunity.
(9) The heathen being suspected of taking the child's life. (Men. 42a.) Thus R. Meir is said to permit circumcision by a heathen!
(10) Gen. XVII, 9, spoken by God to Abraham when the rite of circumcision was first enacted, which implies that only one bound to keep the rite is qualified to perform it. R. Judah thus rules that a heathen is not qualified.
I picked this particular quote from your list because it was the one cited by the previous Jew-hater I responded to on this thread. You bolded it. It would be a waste of my time to check out the other passages you quote, don't you think?
ML/NJ
Some of that stuff is in the Talmud and was written in the Middle Ages. The Talmud is commentary.
Today's Jews don't believe or practice such terrible things. And many of those passages don't exist or are quoted out of context. As for Islam ....they put the worst passages of the Koran and Koranic commentary into practice. Martyrdom Jihad and more
The material is out there. Putting it before people to read and debate should not be construed as support for the points, unless I had specifically stated my belief in the validity of the opinions. In fact, I did the opposite. Flying off half-baked and ill-informed is precisely the kind of crap we should be avoiding. I have been here a long time and been called many things in the course of healthy debate, but never an anti-semite or a racist. My record speaks for itself.
I didn't assume anything by your post. Please don't do so with mine.
Much of anti-Semitism appears to have its origins in the supposed belief that Jews must intrinsically hate Christianity and humanity in general. Of course, this is not true, but it does not stop the production of vast amounts of anti-Semitic propaganda to this effect. This belief is often combined with the idea that Jews are somehow not human, but must have access to various subterfuges or even magic to give, at least, the appearance of being human and thus be able to "infiltrate" and "corrupt" normal society. Indeed, many societies have blamed "the Jews" for all their problems. It follows from these beliefs that Jews must therefore be exterminated in order for society to function normally, and sadly, this has been tried on more than one occasion.
The types of fears and misconceptions at work in these cases are among the most ancient and primordial in existence. Perhaps if those that blamed "the Jews" for their problems had the same devotion to education, learning and personal advancement that Jews typically do, they wouldn't have whatever problems they are blaming Jews for.
This is a project to provide responses to the anti-Semites who post alleged quotes from the Talmud and other anti-Jewish propaganda in a way intended to promote hatred of Jews. These "Talmud quotes" and other material are either entire fabrications, mistranslations or out of context. This is a sample of the first small completed section.
If you have any comments I would be happy to hear them. I would like to thank all the people who have contributed answers. Each contribution includes the author's name or initials. I would also like to thank Frances for starting this site and for ongoing support. There are also several other documents that I am working on.
Most of the "Talmud quotes" come from the Russian anti-Semite Rev. I. B. Pranaitis, who had a criminal record and was "Master of Theology and Professor of the Hebrew Language at the Imperial Ecclesiastical Academy of the Roman Catholic Church" in Old St. Petersburg, Russia.
He wrote this material around the turn of the century in a booklet in Latin with the English title of "The Talmud Unmasked". He was a self-identified Talmudic "scholar" who testified at the B. Mendel Beilis "Blood Libel" case and was laughed out of court when asked some very basic questions on the Talmud which he couldn't answer. Nevertheless, his legacy survives and it is about time there was a response to it. So here is the first part.
Note: This site will not attempt to deal with Holocaust denial. For those requiring proof that the Holocaust did occur, please visit http://www.nizkor.org or http://www.holocaust-history.org Please also visit Hatewatch http://hatewatch.org "An educational resource combatting online bigotry". Some of this material is also mirrored there. For Holocaust-denial resources in French please visit http://www.anti-rev.org/ and http://rafale.worldnet.net/~gilkarm/
Some falsified or mistranslated Talmud quotes and accusations that are cited here or elsewhere are discussed in great detail, complete with the original Aramaic or Hebrew at http://talmud.faithweb.com
Please let me know if there is specific material you would like me to address that is not already answered on these pages. Also, I still have a large amount of material that I have not yet put up. I may have already dealt with the claims. Please let me know if you are interested in translating any of this material into other languages, especially Eastern European ones...
David S. Maddison
Response to: The "Protocols of the Elders of Zion"
Some true quotes from the Talmud by Michael Gruda
A response to "THE TALMUD: JUDAISM'S HOLIEST BOOK DOCUMENTED AND EXPOSED"
(In two parts.)
A brief chronology of anti-Semitism
Who was "Reverend" Pranaitis and what did he do?
The supposed quote of Rabbi Wise purporting that Communism=Judaism
The supposed quotes of Washington, Franklin, Jefferson and others
A self-proclaimed "Aryan's" view of "non-Aryans"
A comment on "strange and bizzarre" problems discussed in the Talmud
A response to "Know your enemy - 1000 quotes by and about Jews"
Coming soon: The Blood Libel (claims of "Jewish Ritual Murder")
Coming soon: The Kol Nidre prayer libel
Coming soon: The false claim that Jews were responsible for the slave trade
Coming soon: The false claim that Jews believe non-Jews don't have souls
Coming soon: Is communism a Jewish plot?
More of the "1000 Quotes" analysed or refuted
Coming soon: More on the Khazars
Source: Talmud Forgeries Exposed
(NorthernRight Compilation)
Sorry.
I assumed you didn't know what you were talking about. And this response of yours confirmed it.
You might have said you were duped by some anti-Semitic claptrap, but you didn't. Spare me your, "Some of my best friends are Jews," nonsense.
As I said in my first reply to you, I didn't really know that much about this stuff. But it didn't ring true to me, so I checked. You know: When contradictions exist examine your premises, and all that rot. Well, maybe you don't know.
ML/NJ
That says it all.
I ain't too sold on some of them lately either.
They don't have any fruits. They execute all their fruits.
Uh, oh, Insensitivity alert!
He is only one of thousands. We need to get them all.
Agree, mom, and I feel Islam is one of the most evil forces on earth, possibly, even more evil than communism.
That says it all.
Let's see: In the last 60 days: 4 suicide bombing attempts in Israel, 1 in Afghanistan, 2 in Kashmir, and the 19 suicide bombers in the US. Yet, the Islamic apologists on TV explain it away, telling us that "every religion has its extremists." It is getting harder and harder to take these imams seriously.
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