Posted on 10/01/2001 10:08:20 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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LATEST Terrorism, Justice, and Loving our Enemies 'Thou' Should be Preserved in Hymns
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TERRORISM, JUSTICE AND LOVING OUR ENEMIES September 12, 2001 Someone asked me after our Tuesday prayer service in response to the terrorist attack, "Can we pray for justice, and yet love our enemy at the same time?" The answer is yes. But let's start with or own guilt. Christians know that if God dealt with us only according to justice, we would perish under his condemnation. We are guilty of treason against God in our sinful pride and rebellion. We deserve only judgment. Justice alone would condemn us to everlasting torment. But God does not deal with us only in terms of justice. Without compromising his justice he "justifies the ungodly" (Romans 4:5). That sounds unjust. And it would be if it were not for what God did in the life and death of Jesus Christ. The mercy of God moved him to send the Son of God to bear the wrath of God so as to vindicate the justice of God when he justifies sinners who have faith in Jesus. So we have our very life because of mercy and justice (Romans 3:25-26). They met in the cross. So we are not quick to demand justice unmingled with mercy. Jesus demands, "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous" (Mathew 5:44-45). And, of course Jesus modeled this for us as a perfect man. "While we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son" (Romans 5:10). And even as he died for his enemies he prayed, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing" (Luke 23:34). So the resounding command of the apostles is, "Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. . . . Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. . . . Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, 'Vengeance is mine, I will repay,' says the Lord. 'But if your enemy is hungry, feed him, and if he is thirsty, give him a drink'" (Romans 12:14-20). When we live this way we magnify the glory of God 's mercy and the all-satisfying Treasure that he is to our souls. We show that because of his supreme value to us, we do not need the feeling of personal vengeance in order to be content. But it does not compromise this truth to say that God should also be glorified as the one who governs the world and delegates some of his authority to civil states. Therefore some of God's divine rights as God are given to governments for the purposes of restraining evil and maintaining social order under just laws. This is what Paul means when he writes, "There is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. . . . [This authority is] a minister of God to you for good . . . it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil" (Romans 13:1-4). God wills that human justice hold sway among governments, and between citizens and civil authority. He does not prescribe that governments always turn the other cheek. The government "does not bear the sword for nothing." Police have the God-given right to use force to restrain evil and bring law-breakers to justice. And legitimate states have the God-given right to restrain life-threatening aggression and bring criminals to justice. If these truths are known, this God-ordained exercise of divine prerogative would glorify the justice of God who mercifully ordains that the flood of sin and misery be restrained in the earth. Therefore, we will magnify the mercy of God by praying for our enemies to be saved and reconciled to God. At the personal level we will be willing to suffer for their everlasting good, and we will give them food and drink. We will put away malicious hatred and private vengeance. But at the public level we will also magnify the justice of God by praying and working for justice to be done on the earth, if necessary through wise and measured force from God-ordained authority. Seeking to magnify ALL of God's glories, September 12 2001 Pastor John Piper
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Isn't it THEIR RESPONSIBILITY? Not RIGHT?????
P.S. He talks about my vision in his book Desiring God I found out several days after I had my vision; to my fascination. In fact, God used his book to clarify my vision with these words: Glorifying God not by serving, but by being served by Him.
Happy hunting!
What say you O mighty man Bush. Have your commentaries given you the answer yet? Do you feel like casting any more dispersions about my spiritual Gifts? GWB has made a pit and dug it out, And has fallen into the ditch which he made.
Your vision??? You sound like a pompous individual to me dear sir. How about a little humility? And another thing, why not mix a little Christian love in your accusations of GWB?
I know John Piper personally, and he wouldn't approve of your attacks on my friend GWB.
Thanks for the bump Rnmomof7. I always enjoy reading Bro. Piper.
I have never read his books,he seems thoughtful and nothing of this nature has been posted in a few days...People have alot of questions on this and how faith impacts what is happening.
As a nation, our cues come more from the Old Testement law than from the New Testament principles for the individual. Israel was commanded to engage in brutal conflict with its enemies-- to the point of slaying women and children. As the old saying goes, "All's fair in war." Or, more recently, "There can be no such thing as war atrocities. War itself is an atrocity."
So, as a nation, we have a collective responsibility to take vengence upon the people responsible for this dastardly act. We must strike back with a fury so great that the next would-be terrorist will realize his cause will be set back for the next hundred years if he attempts an attack on America. We cannot count on changing the minds of these individuals. Basically, we have to kill them before they kill more of us. Wars don't get more just than that.
On the other hand, as individual Christians, we are to love our enemies. If the opportunity arises to present the gospel to Osama Bin Laden himself, we should immediately do so. (Already that name is being associated with Adolf Hitler, and rightly so!) It would not do for us sinners, saved by grace and by no merit of our own, to say, "No, not him, Lord!!"
And lets see if we can keep this thread from degenerating to the level of that flame war last night. If that happens too much more, JimRob will probably ban all religious threads, and who could blame him?
This is the time to present the gospel,in a clear and understandable way
I dont know if you have seen this piece just posted...we need to pray for wisdom in our Nations response and in the resolve of our people.
Well, my apologies. You could read the full account where I do credit God and nearly every other post where I do give full credit to God except that these threads seem to be getting pulled....
And another thing, why not mix a little Christian love in your accusations of GWB? I know John Piper personally, and he wouldn't approve of your attacks on my friend GWB.
He mocks God, the Bible, Baptists, spiritual Gifts, all visions, and complains to get real Christians thrown off of FR. 2 have already been booted off of FR. Therefore, Bush will reveal himself. You could read about it except that 2 threads have been pulled.
Plus, I am acting on specific instructions from God to be much more open for His Glory. Bush has dug his own hole by mocking the Holy Spirit, the Gifts of the Spirit, and the Bible where this particular vision can plainly be found. This scratches the surface and you could ask the_doc or peg the prophet for more information, but alas, they don't seem to be around.
P.S. He has also mocked the quote from John Piper that I posted. You could read about it except....
Excuse me, dear sir, but I get a little nervous when someone says they are acting on specific instructions from God. It makes me want to ask some questions: Who made you a prophet? Where did you get your "pipeline" to God? Did anyone else get this message? Are you the only "mouthpiece?" Did anyone else see your "700 foot Jesus?" Am I only to listen to you now and stop searching the Word?
It sounds like you are drifting into (if not already smack dab-in-the-middle of) Gnostism. God's people can't rest this side of glory. Peter warned us that just as there had been false prophets among the people there would be false teachers among us. Spare me "your vision." I'll let the Holy Spirit speak through His word.
Are you jealous? Would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put His Spirit upon them!I never demanded that God give me visions and dreams. I am blessed to have visions and dreams. I thought that all of His children had intimate experiences with Him. I thought that all of His children should know what it is like to spend time in the presence of the Lord. I am indeed acting to correct my robbing Him of Glory by speaking more openly about His gifts.
As soon as I had the vision for the second time in a week, I went and found it in the Word of God. Rest assured that I have good company with what was revealed to me by God.
Did anyone else get this message? It was given to some very well respected Biblical persons by God. You are free to read about it in the Bible. In fact, when I posted it I said at that point that it was in plain sight in the Bible.
Where did you get your "pipeline" to God? It was pleasing to God to reveal Christ in me! From that moment on, I have had an open invitation to His presence.
Did anyone else see your "700 foot Jesus?" I guess it is easier to mock than to search.
Am I only to listen to you now and stop searching the Word? If you had listened to me, you would know that I said this vision can be found in the Word. But, your way is much better. Please continue with your derision.
Peter warned us that just as there had been false prophets among the people there would be false teachers among us. Spare me "your vision." I'll let the Holy Spirit speak through His word.
Peter agrees with this vision [given to me by God]. FYI, so does John Piper....
He mocks God, the Bible, Baptists, spiritual Gifts, all visions, and complains to get real Christians thrown off of FR. 2 have already been booted off of FR. Therefore, Bush will reveal himself. You could read about it except that 2 threads have been pulled.No, I mock false prophets when they try to impose their strange and unchristian ideas on me.
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