Judgment Day: God promised that calamity would follow disobedience. Why are we quick to dismiss it?

Christianity Today ^ | September 25, 2001 | Frederica Mathewes-Green

[HalfIrish]

In his native Romania Fr. George [Calciu] challenged the communist authorities repeatedly and forcefully, with a courage that defied self-preservation. He was confined in brutal prisons, subjected to brainwashing, and formed a lifelong friendship with a fellow prisoner, Richard Wurmbrand, author of Tortured for Christ.

You can read about him here: Voice of the Martyrs. They also have links to their radio spots and a section called Faces of Persecution where people suffering persecution around the world are spotlighted. Muslim abuse of Christians is documented.

[Don'tMessWithTexas]

In America, we have developed a national repulsion to accountability. We fail to see that nations are considered moral agents just like a corporation or other institution is a moral agent. We also fail to recognize and remember that there are indeed consequences for sin.

I am NOT saying the WTC atrocity was "caused" by our national sins. On the other hand, if this calamity does not humble us and bring us to our knees as a nation, what will it take? It is not a bad thing to be humbled under His hand. It is a wonderful thing. Repentance is not a bad thing. It is a good thing. Both lead the soul to lean more fully upon our God and Creator. Why are we so averse to the throne of grace?

Yesterday, my church proclaimed a fast to petition God for His protection and seek His favor upon our land and our churches. If ever we needed the Lord before, we sure do need Him now!

[Brian Allen]

If our founding fathers were here, I have no doubt they would lead us in national repentance. And quite possibly in the war against terrorism.

Please, Dear Lord, that Our Founding Fathers are here!

Alive and well in you and in me -- and in every last one of our friends and brothers!

Surely the time rapidily approaches that will see us in a war of renewal of our dedication to the tenets upon which Our Fraternal Republic was Founded and upon which it -- and the very survival of our species -- stands?!

A War of Renewal of Independence!

[Brian Allen]

PS: -- Jerry Falwell got it RIGHT!

[Mr. Mulliner]

Miss Marple, you know I respect your opinion a lot. But I keep running into people who have a pretty different view of repentance and relationship between national tragedy and sin than I have and I wonder if that's where we appear to differ.

I have a friend who has a website called "Repentance with Joy." I think it captures what repentance is intended to be. If repentance is turning to God, what could be more joyful than that? And that's not to say that repentance doesn't also and first involve a deep regret for one's sins.

I understand people's strong reactions to talk of the need for repentance if they think that people are saying that God caused the attacks. That is to blaspheme God, in my opinion. But if you see that God has simply withdrawn, at least temporarily, the protection that He's had on our nation because we have continuously gone our way (see Mad Dawg's post #22 above), then it doesn't need to impugn God's character.

[the-ironically-named-proverbs2]

Jer 16:1-13
1 The word of the LORD came also unto me, saying,
2 Thou shalt not take thee a wife, neither shalt thou have sons or daughters in this place.
3 For thus saith the LORD concerning the sons and concerning the daughters that are born in this place, and concerning their mothers that bare them, and concerning their fathers that begat them in this land;
4 They shall die of grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcases shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.
5 For thus saith the LORD, Enter not into the house of mourning, neither go to lament nor bemoan them: for I have taken away my peace from this people, saith the LORD, even lovingkindness and mercies.
6 Both the great and the small shall die in this land: they shall not be buried, neither shall men lament for them, nor cut themselves, nor make themselves bald for them:
7 Neither shall men tear themselves for them in mourning, to comfort them for the dead; neither shall men give them the cup of consolation to drink for their father or for their mother.
8 Thou shalt not also go into the house of feasting, to sit with them to eat and to drink.
9 For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will cause to cease out of this place in your eyes, and in your days, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride.
10 And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt shew this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the LORD pronounced all this great evil against us? or what is our iniquity? or what is our sin that we have committed against the LORD our God?
11 Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the LORD, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law;
12 And ye have done worse than your fathers; for, behold, ye walk every one after the imagination of his evil heart, that they may not hearken unto me:
13 Therefore will I cast you out of this land into a land that ye know not, neither ye nor your fathers; and there shall ye serve other gods day and night; where I will not shew you favour.

Jer 20:1-2
1 Now Pashur the son of Immer the priest, who was also chief governor in the house of the LORD, heard that Jeremiah prophesied these things.
2 Then Pashur smote Jeremiah the prophet, and put him in the stocks that were in the high gate of Benjamin, which was by the house of the LORD.

It wasn't a popular message then, and it's not popular now.

[IGNATIUS]

Fr.George Calciu and Frederica-Mathewes-Green(an Eastern Orthodox convert)are part of that ancient Christian tradition which has greatly suffered and continues to bear heavy affliction from militant Islamicists.Arguably no other part of Christendom has endured as much nor has such historic reasons to fear and detest them.

Imvho this fact adds to the credibility of the author's premise.

[Miss Marple]

I do not believe God has withdrawn his protection. Evil exists. We are not guaranteed protection from the effects of evil doers.

The good that can come from this tragedy is indeed, repentence and a turning to God. An event like this makes people realize that all their eartthly security is of no use in the face of a destructive force. But God did not CAUSE this to happen, nor did he withdraw some sort of special protection. If you belive we had special protection, then where was God's protection at Pearl Harbor, or the San Francisco earthquake, or the flu epidemic of 1918?

To go farther back, had God withdrawn his protection from the Jews during the Holocaust? How about Europe during the Black Plague?

You see, we can draw INDIVIDUAL lessons from events like this. I can say to myself, "I have been living my life poorly, and want to repent and dedicate my life to Jesus." But as a group, when the same thing is said, then we assume an attitude that is a bit arrogant. To say, "Well, God won't protect us if we as a nation don't repent," leaves a big question in the public's mind. WHO is to repent? WHAT should they repent for? Do you not see that most of those who are saying the nation should repent are thinking "Those OTHER guys better repent?"

I assume that you think that the nation should repent for abortion and sexual immorality. SOME people should. I will also tell you that there are others who think that the nation should repent from racism, or greed, or militarism, or whatever cause happens to be their definition of the worst sin.

We live in a flawed world, in which Satan from time to time attacks with tremendous force. This is what we are living through now.

We are called to humble ourselves, call His name, and seek His face. Whether our nation will be saved or not is not given to us to know at this time. What we DO know is that God keep's His promises, and that nothing, NOTHING will separate us from the love of God through Jesus.

[DreamWeaver]

Bump

For later reading.

[troublesome creek]

thought of that, but then dismissed it.

[fredtaps]

If Ben Franklin were here he'd probably kick you in the balls! I haven't felt so mad at organized religion since I read "Sinners in the Hand of an Angry god" years ago in parochial school. You are weak, you have to cling to this ca-ca doodie poopie created by men who were conceived and born into their flesh no differently than you or me. You religious folk strengthen my resolve to cling to just one idea that I find credible from JC: "let no mortar or brick be placed together in my name, THE TEMPLE IS IN YOU" Interpretation: organized religious institutions are a farce created by the common man. period the end.

[DreamWeaver]

2sheep;TrueBeliever9;Think'Gal;ProdigalDaughter

Ping !

[farmfriend]

You may say in your heart, 'These nations outnumber me; how shall I be able to dispossess them?' Do not be afraid of them: remember how Yahweh your God dealt with Pharaoh and all Egypt, the great ordeals your own eyes have seen, the signs and wonders, the mighty hand and outstretched arm with which Yahweh your God has brought you out. So will Yahweh your God deal with all the peoples whom you fear to face. And what is more, Yahweh your God will send hornets to destroy those who remain and hide from you.

Do not be afraid of them, for Yahweh your God is among you, a God who is great and terrible. Little by little Yahweh your God will destroy these nations before you; you will not be able to make an end of them at once, or the wild beasts would grow too many for you. But Yahweh your God will deliver them over to you and will harass them until they are destroyed. He will deliver their kings into your hands and you will blot out their names from under heaven; none shall withstand you, until you have destroyed them all.

Deuteronomy 7:17-24
The Jerusalem Bible
Reader's Edition

"The Terrorists have won the toss and have elected to receive!" B-52 photo: Who created this?

[DreamWeaver]

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 2:5

[Matchett-PI]

#31: "I know where my God was the morning of September 11, 2001! He was very busy. First of all, he was trying to discourage anyone from taking this flight."

What??? "...he was "trying" to discourage anyone from taking this flight."???????

So God isn't sovereign, then, huh? He just "tries" ... but sometimes *the created* (people) just stop him from doing what he intends.

This might help you to give a more *theologically correct* answer to those who sincerely want one:

<A HREF="http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3bb48c1e4873.htm>TRUTH-TELLING IN A TIME OF TRAGEDY</A>

[Matchett-PI]

OOPS!! Here's the link Re:#55: TRUTH-TELLING IN A TIME OF TRAGEDY

[Matchett-PI]

"PS: -- Jerry Falwell got it RIGHT!"

Not quite. He and Robertson misrepresented God and made themselves, and God a laughing stock. They shot themselves in the foot one time too many and now their credibility is out the window for good. And I can't say I'm not glad it's happened, either.

Here are the most circumspect, temperate, spiritually mature comments on the tragedy that I've seen yet made by a Christian:TRUTH-TELLING IN A TIME OF TRAGEDY

[atlaw]

From your posts, it certainly seems like you're saying that the god you wordship in fact slaughtered 6,000 perfectly innocent people as a kind of gruesome message to the rest of us. The message itself is kind of unclear, but hey, you keep telling us that your god works in mysterious ways, so what appears to be appalling immorality and a perfect lack of even rudimentary love and mercy on his part is really ok 'cause he's big and he's terrible and he can do whatever he wants. Just a thought - maybe you ain't really worshiping God anymore?

[Brian Allen]

Mohler's piece sure is looooooooooooooong, isn't it?

Not pithy and to the point like the Reverend Doctor Falwell's gentle reminder to us all.

Talking about which: --

How refreshing it is to see circumspection and sound minded Bible teaching today. The _religious pop-culture_ TV Preacher / book writer icons that the clueless media always trot out for "comments", are an embarrassment. They misrepresent God and make HIM and themselves,a laughing stock.

Reminds me that in Mathew 7:1 I am admonished to judge not, that [I] be not judged!

"For," I am further admonished: "with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

Seems likely, then, that I had better leave judgements alone, least I also be judged.

And/or, if I have judged, had better ask for His forgiveness and make amends?

And not be too surprised that fire and brimstone and [EG: Washington, DC's] Soddom and Gommoroh appear in the same week.

As if His protective hand had momentarily been lifted from this Inspired and Beloved FRaternal Republic?

FReegards

Brian

[Guenevere]

Janey dear, this is from my heart & my perspective.....

God is a sovereign God......God is sovereign.....Satan is not more powerful than God.

Yes, 6000 souls perished 3 weeks ago.......some were Christians....some weren't.
They all perished. ---the same way. ....at the same time.

Being a Christian won't protect us from dying or dying too soon, or dying in a horrible way.

Many were ready to meet their maker.....many weren't.
But God is still sovereign.
There is no other answer.

Our nation has been turning away from God for a long, long time.
Collectively, we spit in His face, and say He is dead.

We ignore Him, trash Him, blaspheme Him, remove Him from schools & the influence of our children......and then when a tragedy of this sort occurs, folk will say..."How could God do this"....or "How could a loving God do this".......

Janey, I believe we have had God's protection upon us........even though corporately, our nation has backed as far away from Him as it can.

God is slow to anger......it says so in the scriptures.

But if we believe there is a God.....and I do.....and He's sovereign....then we must also believe God was not impotent September 11.

Indeed yes, those who took the airplanes, and tricked folks into letting down their guard.......their hearts were evil, and their purpose was evil......and I believe Satan was their master.

But was Satan more powerful than God?.......Could God have stopped it?.....

......or to put it another way......If these terrorists had completely held sway that day.....if we hadn't had a Christian President in place to authorize authority in closing down our airports, the outcome could have been much, much worse.

Did God prevent worse from happening?......Did God stay the hand of Satan, before he could finish us off?

Was this a call to repentance to our nation at large.
Will it be heeded?

Janey, God spared Niniveh in the days of old.......(book of Johah)....

Jonah didn't want Niniveh spared because it was so wicked!!

God dealt with Jonah.........He also spared Niniveh because they repented of their wickedness, and truly mourned thier sins.

But later, they forgot.......they turned away....and well......

Our God is a loving God.......He's a righteous God.......

Janey, my Mom...(who lives in a retirement village)....has a friend, an elderly lady, who refuses to sing ...Amazing Grace...because it has the verse...that saved a wretch like me.....

She says she's not a wretch!

Janey, I'm a wretch!

We all are wretched folks.....no matter how good we clean up on the outside.

And only by God's grace, are our wretched souls redeemed.