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To: OLD REGGIE
Matt:16:

18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Here Peter is given the keys to the kingdom AND given the power to loose and bind. What's next?

Matt. 18:18

Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Jesus gave exactly the same power to all the apostles which he had given to Peter. The keys to the kingdom.

You are here reading things that simply aren't there. The power to bind and loose is NOT synonymous with the meaning of the keys to the kingdom. Peter was given the keys to the kingdom AND (note the use of the word "and" in the Scripture)the power to bind and loose.

All of the apostles were given the power to bind and loose. This does not mean they were all given the keys. If it did, it would have said that. You are reading things athat are not there.

To recap:

Peter: given keys and power to bind and loose

Other apostles: given power to bind and loose

SD

124 posted on 10/01/2001 1:04:23 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
Peter was given the keys to the kingdom AND (note the use of the word "and" in the Scripture)the power to bind and loose.

Isn't it peculiar how Christ spent so much time showing that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit were one, and if you knew him you knew the father.

one fold and one shepard

Husband and wife would become one

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

So after all these words about them being one, Christ puts Peter in charge and gives him all this authority that none of the others have?

I don't think so since I see no examples of any power strugle between any of them.

134 posted on 10/01/2001 1:58:32 PM PDT by JHavard
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To: SoothingDave
Jesus gave exactly the same power to all the apostles which he had given to Peter. The keys to the kingdom.

"You are here reading things that simply aren't there. The power to bind and loose is NOT synonymous with the meaning of the keys to the kingdom. Peter was given the keys to the kingdom AND (note the use of the word "and" in the Scripture)the power to bind and loose."
-------------------------------------------

Let's look again at what the Catholic Encyclopedia has to say:

THE FATHERS

(1) In the Fathers the references to the promise of Matthew 16:19, are of frequent occurrence. Almost invariably the words of Christ are cited in proof of the Church's power to forgive sins. The application is a natural one, for the promise of the keys is immediately followed by the words: "Whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth", etc. Moreover, the power to confer or to withhold forgiveness might well be viewed as the opening and shutting of the gates of heaven. . . . It is comparatively seldom that the Fathers, when speaking of the power of the keys, make any reference to the supremacy of St. Peter. When they deal with that question, they ordinarily appeal not to the gift of the keys but to his office as the rock on which the Church is founded. . . . Thus St. Augustine in several passages declares that the authority to bind and loose was not a purely personal gift to St. Peter, but was conferred upon him as representing the Church. The whole Church, he urges, exercises the power of forgiving sins. This could not be had the gift been a personal one (tract. 1 in Joan., n. 12, P.L., XXXV, 1763; Serm. ccxcv, in P.L., XXXVIII, 1349) ============================================================

What is used to open the gates?????

Maybe your argument is with the Catholic Encyclopedia.
140 posted on 10/01/2001 2:38:36 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE
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To: SoothingDave
All of the apostles were given the power to bind and loose. This does not mean they were all given the keys. If it did, it would have said that. You are reading things athat are not there

You need to look at 16:19 again, this is not keys (period) [Capital A] And. The conjunctive is a continuation of the thought, not the beginning of a new thought. In fact, I just read through three different standards - all seem to have a colon punctuating the line to show this intended meaning right before the [small 'a'] and.. Hmm. I suppose some of us can understand what we read. Even going back to the greek, the structure does not end the thought after the giving of the keys and begin a new thought, the binding and loosing flows from the keys. Wow, backs up what I was saying before - and If you bind yourself on earth, you will be bound in heaven, if you loose yourself on earth, you will be loosed in heaven. If you haven't taken the keys, you have bound yourself. But if you take the keys you loose yourself - hence the meaning of being set free. The keys have to do with authority over oneself - Wow, something else continued to be preached by the Apostles that is right in line with this: Personal responsibility. Paul beats that horse to death then, resurrects it and kills it again repeatedly. It's an abused animal because it must be. Paul said be masters of your selves, in control of every thought and word. The same is echoed by the others.

Again, the weight of this is evident to those who understand the points that are trying to be conveyed. They are Awesome beyond belief when you aren't twisting them to rob them of their meaning. Once you rob them by construing something else of them, the significance is entirely lost. When you rob context you do the same thing.

And just a trivia Question for you. If Matthew 16:18 says what you say it does, can you tell me why two different editions of the Greek new testament taken off the original texts do not Capitolize the p in petros? It would seem that if the name was intended a proper name in the text, the original would have been capitolized as all Proper names in the entire chapter around this verse uses caps. Just an interesting question. Not sure it means anything, but, it certainly would seem to. LOL. I caught this while comparing Zondervans Parallel to one of my Greek new testaments. Just kind of lept out at me.

154 posted on 10/01/2001 5:31:08 PM PDT by Havoc
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