I Need Argument Fodder For Peacenik Liberals Tomorrow Night

vanity | Yaelle

[Yaelle]

Please help me. I will be spending the evening tomorrow surrounded by old friends who are well-read (NYT, WP, LAT, NPR, CNN) and educated, yet as liberal as can be. One is even a Hollywood liberal, smart though as misguided as you can imagine.

He argued with me today that anyone who would feel uneasy getting on a plane with a group of Arab men IS A RACIST. That any fear one would have in such a situation, even so soon after the atrocities, would be irrational. I tried to hold my own on this point, saying that the time elapsed since the tragedy was so short that the fear is still rational at this point. I think we merely agreed to disagree, because he thought that any Arab currently asked to leave a plane should win a lawsuit against the airline. I am no racist, and I think it is very sad that any innocent should be so humiliated, but I feel that the innocent Arabs so accused are simply more victims of the terrorists and their attacks.

I am expecting mild anti-Bush sentiment, anti-protracted war opinions, perhaps the "America may have asked for this with all their horrible activities in the world" stuff, and an inordinate focus on "hate crimes" tomorrow. I am a poor arguer contrasted with the man mentioned above, but not for lack of passion.

I need nice, neat, friendly but firm arguments to counter any of the above positions. To whom could I turn but my eloquent Freepers? Anyone want to help? Give me your best. I will be grateful!

[freedomlover]

If they question your judgement aren't they being ..... judgemental?

[Yaelle]

I have noticed slightly less flags in liberal neighborhoods, and I chalk that up to the fact that only those who actually OWNED large flags prior to the attack were able to display them, and in some of the upper-middle-class liberal neighborhoods, some people were above hanging flags on national days. My mother even had her flag stolen in front of her home (an elegant neighborhood, too).

[Anamensis]

You might also try to make them state exactly what they think we should do. And make it clear that you don't mean "what we should NOT do" (war, bombings, deportations, etc...). When they start in on the activities of the CIA over the last 50 years, tell them that you want to know what to do NOW.

For instance, do they know what Bin Laden wants? (He wants all Muslim Holy Sites turned over to Islamic governments and the US military out of the Middle East.) So the question is, do we give him what he wants or no? If we do, won't we encourage terrorism?

If they want us to abandon Israel, ask them if you think it's right for us to drop a responsibility we took on 60 years ago? What will happen to the Israelis if we abandon them? Do we want that on our consciences? What if there is another Holocaust?

Ask them what they think will happen in Kuwait if we leave? What will Saddam Hussein do? Do they want that?

If they mention that SH invaded Kuwait because we somehow indicated that we might not do anything about it, do they think that indicates that "we gave him permission?" Was permission ours to give? (No) Then we couldn't have given it. Are we saying that from now on, a country's borders mean nothing to us? If larger countries invade smaller countries, are we to do nothing? Do they want us to be isolationists?

If their answers lead back to anything that sounds like "We should let the UN be the judge" then they are ultimately socialists and want a one-world government. Ask them how they feel about Microsoft's monopoly? If they dislike monopolies, why would they support an oligarchy?

[Libloather]

Ax them what would happen, right now, to ANY American plopped in the center of Afghanistan. It wouldn't be pretty...

Ax 'em if any Taliban man should be permitted to beat the snot out of any woman who shows more than the whites of her eyes...

Also ax 'em if destroying 20% of New York's office space wasn't an act of war, what WOULD they consider an act of war...

[PackerBoy]

I forgot to add:

If band of a seven-foot-tall Chinese men start robbing liquor stores around town, should a liquor store owner not feel just a teensy bit uneasy if three seven-fotters drop by one afternoon?

[Yaelle]

Yes, I'd like to leave for home still friends, but, see, I think they are wrong, and they think I believe "evil." I'd like to stop them up a little with some of our better points. Some good ones right here.

[habs4ever]

This 'smart' person expects you to turn off your common sense in the name of racial diversity? Well, ask him/her if he/she then plan to protect you from all harm if you then sit in First Class with 5 Muslim men, all about 25 yrs old. Your friend is a fool, one who lacks the good sense to look out for trouble and be prepared.It is their moral obligation now to provide protection to you if they attempt to prevent you from protecting yourself.

[Yaelle]

Just load up on several brewskies and piss on their Birkenstocks!

LOL, thanks for the suggestion, but I am a girl, and I don't think I'd quite have the "aim" for the job!

[PackerBoy]

I meant "seven-footers".

[lizma]

Would Lincoln's quote of the "enemy within" come in handy?
Worked for me with a fence-sitter.

[sayfer bullets]

I just finished reading "Dr. No" in Texas Monthly's October issue.

If you logon to texasmonthly.com and sign up, you could get a grrrrreaat article about Ron Paul. There's a conservative for you.

If not, then just put either the word "constitution" or anything from it you can remember in a sentence and they'll either provide awesome firework-tantrums or leave you alone.

Good luck, and if all else fails tell them they're invited over to your house on "Ronald Reagan Day."

[Anamensis]

Glad to help. Here's another one-liner as per Arab men on planes: "Would you rather be dead than wrong? If so, doesn't that suggest to you that perhaps your ego is too involved in this matter?"

Okay, so that's two lines... (-:

[Yaelle]

If we immediately deport all non-citizens that came from the middle east, you would have more confidence that the Arab you meet is a citizen and less likely to be a terrorist.

Mr. Lib gave that argument today. "Do you think we should just deport all non-citizens, because non-citizens caused the attack???" as though that were the most racist suggestion around. I suppose if a green man robbed a bank, he would have all the blue men stopped.

[Libloather]

Tell the peaceniks that, at the dinner table, conservatives always try to teach their kids to give peas a chance.

[gore_sux]

He argued with me today that anyone who would feel uneasy getting on a plane with a group of Arab men IS A RACIST.

Ask him if he would go into an IRS building if he saw a white guy wearing camoflauge clothing in a Ryder truck out front. No? He's a RACIST too.

[Anamensis]

Then ask them if Iran and Iraq are not responsible for attacks against us carried out with their funding. It's a neat little trap! ...

EXCELLENT!!

[lasereye]

If someone says they're "against war", then just ask if they thought WWII should have been fought, or the Civil War. The Civil War actually killed the highest percentage of Americans of any war, and created huge civilian suffering in the South. If they are for either of these wars, then they're not "against war". Period.

When you point this out, they'll say "We had to oppose Hitler". Just reply that the particular reason they are for having fought the war is irrelevant. If they are for any war that's been fought, they're not against war. They're just against this particular war. Everyone can claim to be against war if you limit it to wars they disagree with. I was against our war in Kosovo and I supported the Gulf War, so I guess I can claim to be "against war". Don't let them get away with this "I'm against war" BS.

[Anamensis]

Ask them why freeing Tibet from Communist domination is cool but freeing Afghanistan wasn't.

Oh my god that is so good.... that is SO good... BUMP!

[Yaelle]

An intelligent person declines to enter a battle of wits with an unarmed person. How smart are you for trying to have a contest of words with Liberals?

Pretty darned stupid?? But I wanna! And I want to sit back smugly afterward and enjoy the refreshments.

That being said, ask them how we won World War II?

When we said we would bring Japan to its knees, we did. We were never bothered by them militarily again. I hear you.

[habs4ever]

Your friends also want this all to go away by hitting you with the racist taunt.It's cowardice on their part, and they must make a stand.Don't be suprised under the veneer of sophistication that they are terrified to their core, as most of their liberal pieties have been ripped apart since 9/11.They have no anchor.