Posted on 09/27/2001 8:25:15 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
ATHEISTS REJECT COUNTRY'S TURN TOWARD PRAYER
CHAMPAIGN, Illinois, Sep 27, 01 (CWNews.com) - The US' largest atheist group has rejected the public expressions of piety in the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks, especially those by politicians, according to the student newspaper at the University of Illinois.
Ron Barrier of American Atheists told the Daily Illini that nationally televised prayer services, presidential references to God, and calls to prayer leave atheists feeling forgotten as US citizens. "Nonbelievers were touched by the tragedy just as much as believers were," Barrier said. "All we're doing is asking for a little sensitivity. Just because one does not have religious beliefs does not make one less of a citizen."
"People who want to pray are free to do so, but we don't because we don't understand what they are doing," Barrier said. "It is humans who will clear this debris up, rescue other humans and rebuild the section of New York City. There will be no divine interference involved. People may find comfort in it, but we fail to see what purpose prayer serves."
Shane Taylor, director of the university's Christian Campus Fellowship, proffered an explanation. "It's such a core Christian idea that God wants a relationship with us," Taylor said. "It's like a relationship with anyone else. We're going to communicate with God over matters of the world, and we're hoping the president and other leaders are asking God for wisdom. We've been told we'll receive guidance and answers from God, and that is why we still pray."
As for the claim that President George W. Bush is promoting religion, Taylor said: "Our president is a Christian. His faith is a part of who he is. It's hard to ask the president not to have his faith be a part of how he responds to the attacks."
"I was almost going to write that it is people like this is why judgment has fallen on America... like Falwell and Robertson proclaimed. But, in truth, the reason is Christians who have lived a worldy lifestyle."
You may know the gospel, friend, but it's a shame that you slander God by calling what happened on 9/11/01 "His judgement."
God poured out His wrath for the sins of the world at Calvary. His next judgement on sin (disbelief) will come as the Great Tribulation.
Or do you believe God would kill believers and innocents alike to satisfy His wrath against the sins of America? Please stop blaming the victims for what happened 3 weeks ago. And stop blaiming God for it, too.
My mistake. I meant "crucifixion" and wrote "resurrection" instead. Mornings are not kind to me.
John placed Jesus' death at around the time the Passover lambs were being slaughtered (John 18:28; 19:14, 31, 42), before the Passover meal (obviously). The Synoptics place his death the day after the Passover meal (Matthew 26:17-20; Mark 14:14-17; Luke 22:7-14).
Is this just a case of "personal, subtle observations being different?"
And there are many cases of deliberate changes (not including the innumerable accidental mistakes) throughout biblical texts. The interested reader is referred to The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture: The Effect of Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament, by Bart D. Ehrman.
Bed time.
Here's an interesting debate you might like to read.
If you look upon my FR Home page, it will give any observer a taste of G-d's power. I was not just a druggie, I was in the business end of the drug scene. It is a miracle that I am not in prison today. It is a miracle that not only am I a free man, but that I actually work in Law Enforcement, pursuing stock swindlers and defrauders of "widows and orphans" (inside joke, shop talk). It is a miracle that I did not die in the two freebasing OD's that I had, did not get any incurable diseases from my sporadic dabbling with needles, did not get shot in any of the three incidents where fire arms were used to steal (or attempt to steal) from me. Simply put, people that had a life like mine do not get to have a life like mine. I see G-d's mighty hand throughout 1978-1985, working miracles just to keep me breathing.
I did a lot of reading when I was young; I have a genetic eye condition that makes me susceptible to retinal detachments. I was forbidden from contact sports as a boy. I also had an interesting family and family situation; this led me to read a lot about human behavior. This led into reading a lot of Philosophy, Economics (the ultimate HUMAN behavior), History, and Literature. I suppose I was looking for something to explain why my family acted as bizarre as it did, or why I felt as bizarre as I felt.
I also like Science Fiction. I read (and still read) a lot of it. As a teenager, I discovered Heinlein (Starship Troopers), and then got ahold of as much Heinlein as I could. Looking back on it, these books were in many ways my first introduction to Libertarian Philosophy. Then, I read Anthem. Within a month, I had read everything else that had the name of Rand on it. During my late teens and my 20's, I was a registered and heavy contributor to the CA Libertarian Party (I'm sure they would have loved knowing where the $$$ came from). Simply put, Rand made sense. An absolute ethical standard of behavior which was do-able on an individual level, and meant that my freedom was just as important as yours. I like that.
I was almost dead two months short of my 23rd birthday. The day after Easter Sunday of 1985, I entered a drug rehab center of my own free will. I weighed 115 lbs. I am 6' tall; was then, too. I almost died when I was being detoxed; they did'nt know what to give me to wean me off the varieties of crap I had in my system. The next 7 years I spent a lot of time in 12 step meetings. I was a counselor and resident manager at a long term treatment center. And I began to get an idea that something better than me was out there. First, it was the people in the meetings; they were actually not getting loaded and seemed to be having a good life not getting loaded. I noticed some people seemed happier than others; and some seemed like complete "clymers". I was in the last group. I found out first hand that when take the drugs out of an "f'ed up a$$hole", you are left with a straight... That does'nt feel too good.
The people that seemed the happiest were those that talked about the spiritual side of "The Program", and those that were the most miserable were firmly grounded in "working The Program". From may of 1986 to october of 1987 I read the Bible, Koran, Book of Mormon and Dao of Buddha cover to cover. I also read a lot of the Vishnayus too, but stopped about a third of the way through the translation I had. It all seemed like nonsense. I remained a selfish clymer for a great many more years, reading more, getting smarter and dumber at the same time.
Then G-d got my attention. He did it by (nearly literally) grabbing me by the short hairs. My girlfriend became one of those "damm Born Agains" despite my best efforts to convince her about how stupid some one had to be to "believe in Christ". She did'nt buy it, because the people who witnessed to her never preached the Bible to her, never called her relationship with me sinful, never acted judgemental. They simply lived their lives. My girlfriend noticed that these were the happiest people she had evr seen, and that I was not happy at all. She chose wisely, and broke up with me.
At that point, I needed to find out what in the world could be better than me, so I started attending teaching sessions this guy put on. I asked questions. I probed. I poked. I trotted out all the classical objections to christianity; many of which are reprised on this forum. I thought this guy was nuts. I ended up in Tuscon AZ, on the 4th of July in 1992, and this man preached the gospel to me for eight hours straight. I had never heard ANYONE explain G-d's plan for the world in such terms. I flew back to San Francisco pondering, but not convinced.
I got home, pulled out the King James Bible I owned and challenged G-d; "If you are really there, show me something in this book that will convince me to accept you". The book fellopen to Luke Chapter 15. Verse 13 REALLY got my attention ("wasted his substance with riotous living"), and by the time I got to verse 32, I had tears in my eyes. I knew then that there was a G-d that loved me, that he would forgive me, and that I needed to humble myself to Him.
The years since then have been good, except for when I am not focused on G-d. I am quite a bit less of a clymer now than I have been since I was 15. I like spreading the gospel in whatever small way I can, I have found a good church with a pastor who teaches the Bible verse by verse (2 1/2 YEARS in IPeter!), and I get to do some ministry in ways that I find interesting.
BTW, the girlfriend that broke up with me in May of 1992 has borne me two children and we will celebrate our 9th wedding anniversary in November.
Thank you for your forebearence; I obviously am not witty tonight, since this did not display brevity.
G-d Bless you, Uriel975, I'll sure keep my eyes peeled for your screen name in the forum.
After I get my football and kid fixes this weekend, I will be happy to point out the flaws in that debate (not all of them on "your" side either...). I also have some in person Freepin' to do on the vile species "Swinus Pacifistii" at 2:00 pm tommo, my G-d, today! G' night all...
Not correct, my friend. Passover itself lasts for ONE WEEK. The "preperation day" referred to in John 19: 14, 31, 42 AND Matt. 27:62 AND Mark 15:42 AND Luke 23:54 is a FRIDAY, the day before the SABBATH, which to all Jews is Saturday. "Preperation Day" is every Friday to a devout Jew even to this day. The seven day period of the "eating of unleavened bread" is found in Ex. 23:14. The reference in John 18:28 was for the Temple Guards not entering the Praetorium. This was to prevent them from becoming "defiled" by contact with Gentiles, which would have required a heavy purification ritual prior to being able to offer and eat unleavened bread in the Temple during the remaining days of the "Feast of Unleavened Bread". Your confusion probably stems from equating the ritual eating of the seder with the entire Passover holiday. Not correct.
You may want to read the original source material, cover to cover, and not rely on the highly flawed "analysis" available on infidels.org.
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I'm not here to be warm & fuzzy to cowards, like you, that make snide comments behind peoples backs. - Scumbag.
The free market is more than capable of handling those duties you slavishly think govt only can do.
Pity you have more faith in government than God or free enterprise.
As opposed to libertarian pap.
You are correct except on parental authority, and you left out:
Wrong. They believe children can emancipate at any time. That negates parental authority.
However, children always have the right to establish their maturity by assuming administration and protection of their own rights, ending dependency upon their parents or other guardians, and assuming all responsibilities of adulthood.
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