Posted on 09/27/2001 3:27:44 PM PDT by Nora
Thread I here
On the other hand, computers can demonstrate just how flawed Evolutionary Theory is in practice simply by downloading the same file over the Internet thousands upon thousands of times.
Now scan those millions of copies of the downloaded program and run all of the versions whose code was "mutated" by the noisy download process.
And when one of those programs contains added functionality that was NOT written by the original software authors, call me because a miracle just happened. In reality, the mutated downloads won't function as well as the clean downloads no matter how many mutations and permutations you go through.
But that's just DNA coding reality. How can it compete with the religion of Evolution?!
I noticed that you STILL haven't explained to me how Evolutionary Theory is the "only" theory in your little world.
If you scroll back, what I said was that evolution was the only theory which explains the data [regarding proliferation of species]. I'm dimly -- oh so dimly -- aware that there are other theories around, but none which do the job of evolution, that is, explaining the fossil data, DNA data, and the proliferation of species in the world. The only competing "theories" propounded in these threads are (1) Genesis; and (2) flying saucer Johnny Appleseeds, a/k/a Intelligent Design. Neither of those is a scientific theory. If you have one, bring it on.
Last night was the first time I was able to watch the PBS series; "Evolution: A Propaganda Piece."
The topic was the evolution of TB. They were talking about the close quarters and incubator-like conditions responsible for rapidly infecting weakened Russian prisoners with TB. Prisoners were receiving a death sentence because while their prison term may have only been four years, they were coming home with a deadly strain of TB. And do you know what they said was really killing them?
XXXXXXXXX Evolution!!! XXXXXXXXX
You see "Sasha" came down with TB during his first prison stay for burglary and prison officials dutifully administered him an antibiotic. The disease had not gone away completely when Sasha's term was up and he was released back into society. BUT!!! his treatment was not continued and THEN according to the PBS dumkas, the remaining TB in his body now began to "evolve".
Wouldn't you know it, Sasha was caught stealing a second time and returned to prison. They told him there was nothing they could do about his TB, it had now evolved!!! What they meant was that their old antibiotics were no longer effective against this new strain. The announcer then tells us:
"Sasha was a victim of evolution"
What a bunch of scientific horses##t!
I can't believe this falsehood is being taught with such somber seriousness. The truth is, some TB remained alive in Sasha's body, even after the first, incomplete antibiotic regimen. Only the hardiest, most antibiotic resistant strain survived.
Nothing evolved. Some of the TB just survived. It lived to reproduce. Stands to reason the surviving strain was able to flourish in the previously hostile conditions.
So the fairy tale begins. They all saw evolution!!! They teach evolution as having occurred.
Have they proven evolution?
I say "No Way!!!"
But I don't understand your story. If you can't even retell what you saw last night, its no wonder you can't understand evolution.
As for the taliban thing, I feel your pain. And I can also see the humor in it because this anti-evolution faith is so completely stupid.
Oh, how do they evolve?
Can you tell me that they evolve and prove it? To say they evolve is merely a description of what you think has happened. How do you prove what you "understand"?
Do you know for fact that new information appeared on the microbe's genome? That's evolution.
All your dumb-dumbisms mean nothing against one good counter-example. Can A Duplication Mutation Be Beneficial?
The mosquitoes acquired B1 and B2 by two mutations. They then acquired the huge number of copies by duplication mutations. They benefit because the extra copies cause their bodies to produce extra esterase. Whenever a huge amount of insecticide is sprayed, mosquitoes that have lots of resistance are the most likely to live and reproduce.Until 1984, California mosquitoes had neither B1 nor B2. They acquired all those copies in a single decade.
If you get well. You've won the argument. If you don't, I win.
Do you really expect to be taken seriously by adults when you talk in that manner? Pathetic.
So you think that you have a single instance of an insect "evolving" due to pesticides, and that all other arguments must be thrown out because of your soletary example?!
Admit it, you flunked (or didn't even try to take it) biology in college, didn't you.
Evidently you aren't capable of a conversation.
Did I say that was the only known beneficial mutation in existence? It doesn't take much to get you reaching, does it?
Every time a disease microorganism "conquers" a drug that used to kill it, it does so via beneficial mutation. The disease of sickle-cell anemia is caused by a mutation that was originally beneficial in the malarial tropic context of its origin. (But what was beneficial once can be harmful when the selection pressures change. Just ask the dinosaurs.)
From HERE:
Here's a tested recipe for isolating successful mutations... Grow a batch culture of Salmonella typhimurium strain SK2979 at 37 deg. C on Neidhardt's MOPS-based minimal medium with 0.4% glycerol as the carbon source and 10 mM L-aspartate as the nitrogen source. Dilute and subculture for several days. L-aspartate fast growing mutants will take over the culture in something under 3 days. These typically have a doubling time of 60 minutes on asparate, compared to about 120 minutes for the parental, wild-type strain.Even better, starting with the fast-growing strain, one can easily isolate secondary mutation(s) which permit growth on aspartate as the sole carbon and nitrogen source -- which the parental strain simply cannot do. This demonstrates how cumulative mutations can arise.
Basically, techniques involving the natural occurrence of spontaneous, beneficial mutations are commonly used by bacterial geneticists.
Admit it, you flunked (or didn't even try to take it) biology in college, didn't you.
Had the usual freshman course, probably got a B. (You're talking 30 years back in my case.) Did you take it? Sure isn't doing much for you if you did.
Say, you never answered my questions: Do you still believe in the Easter Bunny? The Tooth Fairy? Santa Claus?
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Evolution does not postulate an important role for the "crossed" offspring of wildly differing parent populations. Well, sometimes in plants. The main Darwinian idea, however, is that at any given time all members of a population will be sexually compatible with each other. They may be losing compatibility with some parent population from which they are now isolated but that's not a problem.
In other words, you're making little straw men and knocking them down. If you understand evolution, you're not stating it honestly. But, in fairness to you, there's no real evidence that you understand evolution.
The existence of borderline-speciated populations such as horses and mules is evidence for evolution. How can you say there's some barrier to speciation when every stage of divergence is possible and exists in nature? Horses and mules have lost the ability to produce reliably fertile offspring, but not the ability to produce offspring. They're right on the edge of speciation.
Really?! So we get new species of microorganisms instead of natural selection? After all, I was reasonably certain that most microorganisms had various levels of built-in tolerances for a variety of drugs/antibodies. The drug kills all those without the natural tolerances, leaving only those with pre-engineered tolerances left to thrive. Those versions may very well comprise most or all of the new population of said microorganisms over time, but they were already around prior to the drug first being used, and they were always part of the same species in question, NOT new to the species as require for speciation.
See my previous post on strawman arguments. Or just learn something about evolution.
You mean, since time immemorial all those little critters had resistance to Ciprofloxicin in their makeup?
Cite the evidence, please! Your turn to go get something and I sit back and sneer "That's not it!"
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